* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:03] MAKE SURE WE STILL ROLLING HERE. OKAY. UM, [I. PUBLIC MEETINGS STATEMENT ] I'D LIKE TO CALL TO ORDER THE PUBLIC HEARING FOR APRIL 28TH, 2026. THIS MEETING IS CALLED PURSUANT TO THE PROVISIONS OF THE OPEN PUBLIC MEETINGS LAW. THIS MEETING OF APRIL 28TH, 2026 WAS POSTED ON THE WEBSITE AND ON THE BULLETIN BOARD IN THE MUNICIPAL BUILDING ON APRIL 15TH, 2026, AS REMAINED CONTINUOUSLY POSTED AS REQUIRED UNDER THE STATUTE. IN ADDITION, A COPY OF THIS NOTICE HAS, I'M SORRY, IS AND HAS BEEN AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC AND IS ON FILE WITH THE OFFICE OF THE MUNICIPAL CLERK. PLEASE RISE FOR THE FLAG SALUTE PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. MS. WICKER. ROLL CALL PLEASE. MS. SANMAR. HERE. MR. COX? HERE. MS. MILL HERE. DEPUTY MAYOR MORTGAGE HERE. MAYOR SIM HERE AT THIS TIME NOW WE JUST CALL, WE CALL THE PUBLIC HEARING THE ORDER. I'LL MAKE A LITTLE ANNOUNCEMENT AND THEN MR. HOR COLE WILL HAVE HIS CHANCE. OKAY. I'D LIKE TO CALL [IV.1. Public Hearing pursuant to N.J.S.A. 40:69A-93 considering the Final Removal of the Township Manager ] TO ORDER THE PUBLIC HEARING PURSUANT TO NJ SA 40 69 A DASH 93 CONSIDERING THE FINAL REMOVAL OF THE TOWNSHIP MANAGER. THANK YOU, MR. MAYOR. MR. HOR, UM, MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC, UH, THIS IS GOING TO BE A PUBLIC HEARING FOR THE CONTEMPLATED REMOVAL OF THE TOWNSHIP MANAGER PURSUANT TO 40 69 A DASH 93. UM, JUST FOR A MATTER OF PROCEDURE, THE TOWNSHIP ABOUT TWO WEEKS AGO, ADOPTED RESOLUTION 90 DASH 2026, WHICH SET FORTH THE RULES OF PROCEDURE FOR THE REMOVAL OF MR. HORAL. THOSE RULES AND PROCEDURE WILL GOVERN TODAY'S HEARING. IN CONSIDERATION, MR. HOEL IS PERMITTED TO PRESENT WITNESSES, PRESENT EXHIBITS, BUT MR. HOAL IS NOT PERMITTED TO ASK QUESTIONS OF THE COUNSEL. SIMILARLY, THE COUNSEL IS NOT PERMITTED TO ASK QUESTIONS OF MR. HORAL. MR. HORAL, IN THE EVENT THAT THE COUNSEL DOES ASK ANY QUESTIONS OF MR. HORAL, MR. HORAL WILL SIMILARLY HAVE THE PERMISSIVE RIGHT TO THEREAFTER CROSS-EXAMINE COUNSEL AS TO ANY EXCEPTION AND OR QUESTION THAT THEY TAKE. AFTER MR. NIKKO PRESENTS HIS CASE IN CHIEF, THERE WILL BE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR PUBLIC COMMENT TO QUESTION EITHER IN SUPPORT AND OR IN OPPOSITION TO THE REMOVAL OF MR. UM, HORAL. THEREAFTER, MR. HORAL WILL HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO PRESENT A CLOSING STATEMENT AFTER WHICH THIS COUNSEL WILL TAKE ACTION. NO CO NO DELIBERATION, NO DISCUSSION WILL TAKE PLACE IN EXECUTIVE SESSION. EVERYTHING WILL BE DONE ON THE RECORD. SO WITH THAT, MR. HORNIK, THE FLOOR IS YOURS. GOOD EVENING, COUNSEL. UH, PRIOR TO GETTING STARTED WITH MY PRESENTATION, I JUST WANNA PUT IT ON THE RECORD THAT I DO NOT WAIVE ANY PROCEDURAL DEFECTS OR ANY OTHER CLAIMS IN RELATION TO THE MARCH 17TH COUNCIL MEETING, HOW IT WAS CONDUCTED, MY RIGHT RIGHTS, OR ANY OTHER RIGHTS UNDER NEW JERSEY STATUTES, NEW JERSEY COMMON LAW, OR FEDERAL LAW. UNDERSTOOD. UH, BEFORE WE GET STARTED, I DO WANNA REMIND THE PUBLIC THAT I WAS HIRED BY THE PRIOR TOWNSHIP COUNCIL AFTER AN EXTENSIVE EXECUTIVE SEARCH CONDUCTED BY A PROFESSIONAL FIRM WHERE OVER 40 CANDIDATES WERE VETTED. ALL OF THIS INFORMATION IS ON THE RECORD AT THE JULY 16TH, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING REGARDING, UM, RESOLUTION 90 20 26, WHICH SET OUT THE PROCEDURAL RULES FOR TONIGHT'S PROCEEDING. I DO HAVE A COUPLE OF EXCEPTIONS. NUMBER ONE READS THE HEARING SHALL BE CONSIDERED LEGISLATIVE IN NATURE. I TAKE EXCEPTION TO THAT. COUNSEL'S ACTING BOTH IN AN EXECUTIVE CAPACITY BY PRESSING ALLEGATIONS AGAINST MY PERFORMANCE AND IN A JUDICIAL CAPACITY IN CONVENING THE HEARING AND MAKING LEGAL DETERMINATIONS AS TO MY EMPLOYMENT. POINT NUMBER TWO SAYS, THE TOWNSHIP COUNCIL WILL NOT PRODUCE ANY WITNESSES OR PRESENT ANY MATTERS ON ITS BEHALF. UH, COUNSEL HAS DECIDED TO DISHONOR MY DUE PROCESS, RIGHTS DUE PROCESS, ENTITLES AN EMPLOYEE TO NOTICE OF THE CHARGES AND AN OPPORTUNITY TO BE HEARD, WHICH WE'RE DOING HERE TONIGHT, BUT IT ALSO ENTITLES ME AS AN EMPLOYEE TO DISCOVERY OF PROOFS AND DOCUMENTATION. COUNSEL HAS FLATLY DENIED ME THE RIGHT TO DISCOVERY THAT I SUBMITTED A REQUEST ON MARCH 17TH. SO THIS, THAT'S ON THE RECORD AS WELL. OKAY. I'M GONNA DO MY BEST TO STICK TO THE FACTS HERE. WE'RE GONNA GO POINT BY POINT FROM, UH, RESOLUTION. I GUESS THAT WAS RESOLUTION 76 20 26. THE, UH, PROFFERED REASONS FOR MY REMOVAL WE'RE GONNA GO ONE BY [00:05:01] ONE. NUMBER ONE, COUNSEL HAS LOST ITS CONFIDENCE IN THE MUNICIPAL MANAGER, PARTICULARLY IN RELATION TO THE 2025 MUNICIPAL BUDGET AND THE DECISIONS AFFECTING SAID BUDGET. IN ADDITION TO RECEIVING A 2026 BUDGET LATE AND ABOVE, THE CAP WILL ALLOW WITH DISCHARGE, I'M BEING CRITICIZED FOR THE 2025 BUDGET, WHICH HAD A $3.3 MILLION GAP ON A $26 MILLION PROPOSED BUDGET. UM, THREE OF YOU MEMBERS OF COUNCIL WEREN'T ON THE COUNCIL THAT APPROVED THAT BUDGET, AND THE OTHER TWO OF YOU ACTUALLY VOTED TO APPROVE IT. BUDGET DOCUMENTS, BUDGETS ARE POLICY DOCUMENTS OF COUNSEL. YOUR CRITICISM OF ME IS UNSUPPORTED. WITH RESPECT TO THE 2025 BUDGET, WE HAD FIVE EXECUTIVE SESSIONS, FIVE WHERE WE DISCUSSED THE 2025 BUDGET. ULTIMATELY, THE BUDGET THAT WAS APPROVED WAS A BUDGET THAT ALL FIVE COUNCIL MEMBERS VOTED UPON FOR 2026. YOUR STATEMENT THAT THE 2026 BUDGET WAS LATE AND ABOVE THE CAP LEGALLY ALLOWED IS AN INVALID STATEMENT. YOU INTRODUCED, UH, FOR THE RECORD, YOU INTRODUCED THE 2026 BUDGET. THAT IS SUBSTANTIALLY SIMILAR TO THE BUDGET I SENT YOU ON MARCH 9TH. I SENT AN INITIAL BUDGET ON FEBRUARY 27TH. NOTHING IN THE LOCAL BUDGET LAW REQUIRES THAT THAT BUDGET BE PREPARED AND READY FOR ADOPTION WHEN THE BUDGET DEADLINE IS DUE. FURTHER, THIS ALLEGATION IS FALSE UNDER THE FAULKNER ACT. LET ME TURN, LOOK AT MY STATUTES HERE. 40 A, I'M SORRY. 40 69 A DASH 97.1 MANAGER SUBMISSION OF RECOMMENDED BUDGET WHERE BUDGET DATES ARE EXTENDED, NOTWITHSTANDING IN PROVISIONS OF SECTION NINE DASH 17 APPEAL 1950 C TWO 10, WHICH IS 40 69 A DASH 97 IN ANY LOCAL BUDGET YEAR FOR WHICH THE BUDGET DATES ARE EXTENDED. PURSUANT TO SECTION ONE OF THIS ACT, THE MUNICIPAL MANAGER OF A MUNICIPALITY GOVERNED UNDER THE COUNCIL MANAGER PLAN PURSUANT TO PL 1950. CHAPTER TWO 10, WHICH TAKES ADVANTAGE OF SUCH EXTENSION, SHALL SUBMIT TO COUNCIL HIS RECOMMENDED BUDGET, NOT LESS THAN 16 DAYS PRIOR TO THE EXTENDED DATE FOR THE INTRODUCTION AND APPROVAL OF MUNICIPAL BUDGETS BY WAY OF LOCAL FINANCE NOTICE 2025 DASH 18. THE DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNITY AFFAIRS EXTENDED THE CALENDAR YEAR 2026 BUDGET DEADLINE FOR INTRODUCTION TO MARCH 31ST OR THE FIRST MEETING. THEREAFTER, YOU RECEIVED A LEGALLY VALID BUDGET FROM ME ON MARCH 9TH. SO THIS CHARGE, THIS FIRST CHARGE, IS LEGALLY DEFICIENT AND IT SHOULD BE STRICKEN. SECOND CHARGE, THE MUNICIPAL MANAGER HAS NOT SATISFACTORILY OR SUCCESSFULLY IMPLEMENTED POLICIES OF THE TOWNSHIP COUNCIL FOR THE PROPER ADMINISTRATION OF THE AFFAIRS OF THE MS. BOWING. SINCE COUNCIL REFUSED TO PROVIDE DISCOVERY, I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT SO-CALLED POLICIES OF TOWN COUNCIL WERE NOT IMPLEMENTED OR SUCCESSFULLY IMPLEMENTED OR SATISFACTORY IMPLEMENTED. SINCE I'M NOT ALLOWED TO, IF I WAS ALLOWED TO ASK YOU QUESTIONS, I'D ASK ANY OF YOU IF YOU COULD NAME ANY OF THESE POLICIES. I'LL GET BACK TO THAT LATER. CHARGE NUMBER THREE, THE MANAGER HAS NOT COMMUNICATED WITH AND REPORTED TO TOWNSHIP COUNCIL AS A WHOLE IN A MANNER ACCEPTABLE TO A MAJORITY OF THE MEMBERS OF COUNCIL ON JANUARY 15TH, AT A REGULAR WEEKLY MEETING WITH THE MAYOR AND DEPUTY MAYOR, THE MAYOR AND DEPUTY MAYOR DIRECT DIRECTED ME TO LIMIT MY, MY COMMUNICATION WITH OTHER MEMBERS OF COUNCIL AND TOLD ME THAT THEY WOULD COMMUNICATE CERTAIN SENSITIVE INFORMATION TO THE OTHER MEMBERS OF COUNCIL. FOR THE RECORD, NOT A SINGLE ONE OF YOU CONTACTED ME TO INDICATE I WASN'T COM COMMUNICATING SUFFICIENTLY IN THE ALMOST 50 DAYS I WORKED FOR YOU IN 2.5 MONTHS. I SENT YOU OVER 140 GROUP EMAILS. I SENT ANOTHER 61 EMAILS TO THE DEPUTY MAYOR AND 52 TO THE MAYOR, ALONG WITH 47 GROUP TEXTS [00:10:01] TO THE, TO THE MAYOR, OR TO THE MAYOR AND DEPUTY MAYOR AND MANY OTHER GROUP TEXTS AMONGST OTHER MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL WHERE EITHER THE MAYOR OR DEPUTY MAYOR WAS COPIED, AS WELL AS EMAILS TO STATE THAT I HAVEN'T COMMUNICATED ENOUGH IS PLAINLY FALSE CHARGE NUMBER FOUR, THE TOWNSHIP MANAGER HAS PROVIDED INCOMPLETE AND UNTIMELY INFORMATION NECESSARY FOR COUNCIL'S REVIEW AND CONSIDERATION OF VARIOUS MATTERS, INCLUDING THE 2025 AND 2026 BUDGET. 'CAUSE I DON'T KNOW WHAT OTHER VARIOUS MATTERS THERE ARE. AT LEAST I CAN RESPOND TO THE ONES ON THE BUDGET. I REITERATE WHAT I STATED EARLIER, THAT THREE OF YOU WEREN'T ON COUNCIL LAST YEAR AND DIDN'T PARTICIPATE IN HIS FIVE EXECUTIVE SESSIONS WHERE THE BUDGET WAS DISCUSSED FOR 2026. I MET WITH THREE OF YOU SEPARATELY ON MARCH 6TH AND MARCH 9TH, AND I HAD LOADS OF BUDGET MATERIALS, WHICH I OFFERED TO YOU FOR REVIEW WHEN I EXPLAINED HOW I WAS ABLE TO CLOSE THE 1.3 MILLION 2026 BUDGET GAP. YOU PROCEEDED TO THANK THE CFO OTHER THAN COUNCILMAN COX, WHO REQUESTED BUDGET INFORMATION FROM 2025. NONE OF YOU ASKED FOR ANY BUDGET DOCUMENTS. LAST YEAR'S COUNSEL ASKED FOR VARIOUS REPORTS IN PREPARATION FOR THE BUDGET, ALL OF WHICH WERE SUPPLIED. DON'T TAKE MY WORD ON IT, ASK THEM. CHARGE NUMBER FIVE, TOWNSHIP MANAGER HAS FAILED TO ADV ADVISE TOWNSHIP COUNSEL ON SIGNIFICANT AND TIME SENSITIVE MATTERS IMPACTING PUBLIC SAFETY, COMMUNITY WELFARE, AND ADMISSIBLE OPERATIONS. I REITERATE MY RESPONSE TO NUMBER TWO, WHERE I HAVE NO DISCOVERY, THERE'S NO SPECIFICS HERE. I CHALLENGE YOU TO IDENTIFY ANY MATTERS IMPACTING PUBLIC SAFETY, COMMUNITY WELFARE, OR TOWNSHIP OPERATIONS WHERE I DIDN'T TIMELY INFORM YOU. DON'T RESPOND TO ME JUST BECAUSE I'M ASKING, TELL THE PUBLIC IF I'VE DONE THIS. GIVE THE PUBLIC SOME CONCRETE EXAMPLES. NUMBER SIX, THE TOWNSHIP MANAGER HAS PROVIDED INSUFFICIENT GUIDANCE, COORDINATION, AND ADMINISTRATIVE LEADERSHIP TO THE TOWNSHIP COUNCIL IN CONNECTION WITH MAJOR INITIATIVES AND TIME SENSITIVE MATTERS. AGAIN, I'M, I'M PINING TO KNOW WHAT ADMINISTRATIVE LEADERSHIP THAT I WITHHELD OR TOOK, TOOK TOO LONG TO PROVIDE YOU. CAN ANY OF YOU NAME TWO MATTERS? FORGIVE ME A FAIR OPPORTUNITY TO RESPOND TO THIS ONE. NUMBER SEVEN, THE TOWNSHIP MANAGERS FAILED TO IMPLEMENT POLICIES AND DIRECTIONS ESTABLISHED BY THE TOWNSHIP COUNCIL FOR PROPER ADMINISTRATION OF MUNICIPAL AFFAIRS. I THINK YOU'RE KIND OF CONVOLUTE IN THE RESPONSIBILITIES HERE. THE TOWNSHIP MANAGER RUNS THE DAY-TO-DAY OPERATIONS AND IS THE EXECUTIVE COUNSEL. THIS IMPLIES THAT YOU'RE A TOWNSHIP COMMITTEE AND YOU'RE NOT. YOU'RE THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH OF MUNICIPAL GOVERNMENT. AND AS LEGISLATIVE STATE BRANCH, YOUR JOB IS TO SET POLICY. I LOOKED OVER EVERY SINGLE AGENDA THIS YEAR THROUGH MARCH 17TH. SO WHAT PURPORTED POLICY OR DIRECTION DID YOU AS A BODY LEGISLATIVE BODY ISSUE THAT I FAILED TO IMPLEMENT? THERE'S NOTHING. 'CAUSE YOU CAN ONLY ACT AS A BODY AND THERE'S NOTHING THAT YOU HAVE DIRECTED ME TO DO THAT I FAILED TO IMPLEMENT. NUMBER EIGHT, THE TOWNSHIP MANAGER HAS FAILED TO AQUATICA INFORM AND PROVIDE ADEQUATE AND CONSISTENT INFORMATION TO TOWNSHIP COUNCIL WITH INFORMATION PROVIDED TO THIRD PARTIES AND RESIDENTS, PARTICULARLY WITH RESPECT TO HANDLING TO THE HANDLING AND DEED RESTRICTION EXTENSIONS AND RELATED COMPLIANCE MATTERS. SO THERE'S A TYPO IN AQUA. DO ANYTHING AQUA. UM, I FIND THIS TO BE A VERY PECULIAR CHARGE. SO THE PUBLIC IS AWARE. TOWNSHIP COUNCIL DESIGNATED THE TOWNSHIP SOLICITOR TO BE THE LEAD FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING, NOT THE TOWNSHIP MANAGER. CONSEQUENTLY, I TOOK DIRECTION, PRESUMABLY WITH COUNCIL'S BLESSING FROM THE TOWNSHIP MAN, TOWNSHIP SOLICITOR. UM, THE PRIOR SOLICITOR DIRECTED ME TO SEND EMAILS TO CORPORATE LANDLORDS ABOUT DEED RESTRICTION EXTENSIONS. I ALSO DRAFTED LETTERS TO 74 POTENTIALLY ELIGIBLE RESIDENTS, WHICH I SENT IN DRAFT FORM TO ALL OF COUNSEL AND TO BOTH THE PRIOR SOLICITOR AND THE NEW SOLICITOR. CONSEQUENTLY, I DISCOVERED THAT DEED EXTENSIONS COULDN'T BE USED FOR FOURTH [00:15:01] ROUND AFFORDABLE HOUSING COMPLIANCE. AND MR. MCGUCKIN CONFIRMED THIS FACT IN EARLY FEBRUARY, BUT YOU STILL DON'T BELIEVE ME OR HIM AS YOU MADE A SPECIAL TRIP TO THE DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNITY AFFAIRS, WHICH TOLD YOU THE SAME THING I TOLD YOU IN EARLY FEBRUARY THAT YOU CAN'T USE DEED RESTRICTION EXTENSIONS IN THE FOURTH ROUND. NUMBER NINE, THE TOWNSHIP MANAGER HAS FAILED TO PROPERLY ADVISE, DEVELOP, AND RECOMMEND A COMPENSATION AND SALARY ADJUSTMENTS WITHIN THE TOWNSHIP PRECLUDING THE FISCAL IMPACT OF SUCH RECOMMENDATIONS. AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS YEAR, I SENT YOU A MEMO WITH 2026 SALARY ADJUSTMENTS FOR NON-UNION SUPPORT STAFF AND MANAGERS. ACCORDING TO THE 2025 SALARY ORDINANCE IS WITHIN MY AUTHORITY TO DO SO. I ALSO SHARED WITH YOU THE 2025 SALARY AND WAGE MATERIALS, WHICH DEMONSTRATED FOR SUPPORT STAFF THAT LOW WAGES WERE CAUSING TURNOVER IN SUPPORT STAFF POSITIONS, MOST OF WHICH I WILL NOTE ARE HELD BY WOMEN. I ASSURED YOU THAT THE 2026 BUDGET COULD AFFORD THE NON-UNION AND PROJECTED UNION WAGE INCREASES FOR A PERIOD OF EIGHT YEARS. FROM 2006 TO 2013, I CRAFTED 80 TO $90 MILLION SALARY WAGE BUDGETS FOR BURLINGTON COUNTY GOVERNMENT IN ADDITION TO OVERALL COUNTY BUDGETS DURING THE GREAT RECESSION IN A RANGE OF 210 TO $217 MILLION. THE 2026 BUDGET I DELIVERED TO YOU ON MARCH 9TH HAD A 200,000 TOTAL INCREASE TO THE SALARY AND WAGE AND BUDGET. AND WHEN I SENT YOU THE BUDGET, I EXPLAINED THAT THE SALARY AND WAGE BUDGET WAS ACTUALLY FLAT FOR 2026 WITH THOSE RAISES IN THERE. BUT THE EXCEPTION WAS A ONE-TIME EXPENSE OF $200,000 FOR A 27TH PAY FOR HOURLY EMPLOYEES. THAT ONLY OCCURS ONCE EVERY 12 TO 13 YEARS. SO TO SAY THAT I DELIVERED A BUDGET WITH SALARY AND WAGES THAT WE COULDN'T AFFORD WHEN THEY WERE PRACTICALLY FLAT, IT'S JUST PLAIN FALSE. NUMBER 10, THE TOWNSHIP MANAGER HAS FAILED TO PERFORM HIS DUTIES IN A SATISFACTORY MANNER TO MUNICIPAL COUNSEL. AGAIN, I I DON'T, I DON'T HAVE ANY WAY TO, TO CONTEST THAT OTHER THAN TO SAY I WAS NEVER GIVEN ANY PERFORMANCE EXPECTATIONS OTHER THAN THE TWO I MENTIONED AT THE MARCH 17TH MEETING. NOTHING WAS EVER GIVEN TO ME IN WRITING. NOTHING WAS EVER GIVEN TO ME ORALLY WHERE I WAS TO TAKE NOTES. HEY, THESE ARE, THIS IS WHAT COUNSEL WANTS FROM YOU. SO I GUESS IF, IF I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE EXPECTATIONS ARE, THEN ANYTHING YOU SAY I FAIL TO LIVE UP TO. I THINK MOST RESIDENTS LISTENING TO THIS MEETING WILL CONCLUDE THAT MANY OF THE ALLEGATIONS AGAINST ME LACK ANY SUBSTANTIATION AND THAT I'VE SUCCESSFULLY REFUTED THE FEW CHARGES WHERE SPECIFICS WERE PROVIDED. AS FAR AS, AS FAR AS WHAT NOW, UH, I HAVE A PROPOSED RESOLUTION FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION AS THE GOVERNING BODY. WHILE I VEHEMENTLY DISAGREE WITH THE ACTIONS YOU HAVE TAKEN VIA RESOLUTION 76 20 26, I DO RECOGNIZE THAT IT'S YOUR RIGHT TO DETERMINE WHETHER TO EMPLOY A FULL-TIME MANAGER, A PART-TIME MANAGER, OR TO ENTER INTO A SHARED SERVICE AGREEMENT RATHER THAN TO CONTINUE TO DAMAGE MY REPUTATION. HERE IS THE RESOLUTION I PROPOSE WITHOUT PREJUDICE PRESIDENT OR WAIVING ANY OF MY LEGAL RIGHTS, WHEREAS RESOLUTION, WHEREAS NJSA 40 69 A DASH 89 AND 69 DASH 92 PROVIDED TO TOWNSHIP COUNSEL SHALL APPOINT A MUNICIPAL MANAGER AND OUTLINE THE GENERAL QUALIFICATIONS FOR THE POSITION. AND WHEREAS THE UNIFORM SHARED SERVICES AND CONSOLIDATION ACT AT NJSA 40, A 65 DASH ONE AND EXPRESSLY 40 A 65 DASH FOUR AUTHORIZED MUNICIPALITIES TO SHARE THE SERVICES OF MUNICIPAL PERSONNEL. AND WHEREAS BY WAY OF RESOLUTION 91 20 26 TOWNSHIP COUNCIL HAS APPROVED A SHARED SERVICE AGREEMENT WITH THE TOWNSHIP OF SOUTHAMPTON FOR THE PRO PER PROVISION OF A MUNICIPAL ADMINISTRATOR TO SERVE THE TOWNSHIP ON A PART-TIME BASIS IN PLACE OF THE TOWNSHIP MANAGER. AND WHEREAS ON ACCOUNT OF THE SHARED SERVICES AGREEMENT WITH SOUTHAMPTON TOWNSHIP [00:20:01] COUNCIL NO LONGER WISHES TO EMPLOY DANIEL OL'S FULL-TIME TOWNSHIP MANAGER. AND WHEREAS SHOULD THIS RESOLUTION BE APPROVED, DANIEL CLE HAS INDICATED ON RECORD THAT HE'S, HE WAIVES ANY FURTHER HEARINGS RELATED TO HIS REMOVAL FROM THE POSITION OF TOWNSHIP MANAGER BE IT RESOLVED THAT DANIEL HORNICK WAS HEREBY SUSPENDED FROM THE POSITION OF TOWNSHIP MANAGER IN ACCORDANCE WITH, WITH, UH, 40 A. SORRY ABOUT THAT PAT. I MADE A MISTAKE THERE. 40 69 A DASH 93 PENDING A FINAL VOTE OF THIS COUNCIL UPON HIS REMOVAL FROM OFFICE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED PURSUANT TO THE AFOREMENTIONED STATUTE, THAT DANIEL SHOULD CONTINUE TO BE PAID THE BALANCE OF HIS SALARY. IN AN EVENT OF A FINAL RESOLUTION OF REMOVALS ADOPTED, HE SHOULD BE PAID HIS SALARY FOR A TOTAL OF THREE COUNTER MONTHS, FOLLOW THE ADOPTION OF HIS RESOLUTION, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED THAT RESOLUTION, 76 DASH 2026 IS HEREBY RESENTED IN ITS ENTIRE TEAM. I WOULD URGE YOU, I'M, I'M NOT GONNA BELABOR THIS MUCH LONGER. I'M NOT GONNA GIVE YOU MORE THAN WHAT I HAVE TO SAY IN THE NEXT MINUTE OR TWO. UM, I'M NOT UP HERE TAKING POT SHOTS. I WOULD URGE YOU TO TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO ACCOMPLISH WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO GET DONE WITHOUT PERSONALLY ATTACKING MY PERFORMANCE. AS I STATED ON THE RECORD ON MARCH 17TH, IT'S UNDISPUTED THAT I PUT MY HEART AND SOUL INTO THIS TOWNSHIP FOR A YEAR AND A HALF THAT I SERVED, ALONG WITH A NUMBER OF CONTRIBUTIONS THAT HAVE DRAMATICALLY IMPROVED TOWNSHIP OPERATIONS. ALL THIS STUFF IS ON RECORD. I'VE ENJOYED INTERACTING WITH THE RESIDENTS AND DEVELOPING TOWNSHIP STAFF TO HOPEFULLY REMAIN LONG-TERM EMPLOYEES. 'CAUSE THERE'S SOME REALLY GOOD PEOPLE WORKING HERE. MY SERVICE HAS BEEN HONORABLE TO YOU AND MY SERVICE SHOULD END HONORABLY. AND THAT'S ALL I HAVE. ALL RIGHT, MR. MAYOR, UM, AT THIS POINT WE DO HAVE TO OPEN UP THE HEARING TO PUBLIC COMMENT. THEY ARE ALLOWED TO MAKE COMMENTS. THAT'S IT. THERE WILL BE NO RESPONSES FROM THE TOWNSHIP COUNCIL. MR. HORAL, YOU DO HAVE THE RIGHT TO CROSS EXAMINEE ANY MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC, WHETHER THEY BE IN FAVOR OR FOR AGAINST. UM, THE OTHER QUESTION I HAVE FOR YOU MR. HORAL, IS DO YOU WANT THEM SWORN IN? NO, I DON'T WANT ANYBODY. EXCUSE ME. WE DON'T, I CAN'T ASK ANY QUESTIONS. CORRECT. AND I I'M SORRY, MS. VARGER IS, DO I, IS THERE A LIMIT TO THE COMMENT? JUST TO BE FAIR TO THE PUBLIC, IS THERE ANY SORT OF TIMEFRAME LIMITATIONS OR THERE'S NO TIMEFRAME LIMITATION. THERE'RE ALLOWED TO PROVIDE ANY TESTIMONY IN FAVOR FOR OR AGAINST THE REMOVAL OF MR. HORAL, UM, IN CONJUNCTION WITH PRELIMINARY RESOLUTION 76 DASH 2026 LISTING THE CHARGES THAT MR. HORAL HAS GONE THROUGH THIS EVENING. AND, AND THIS SECTION IS FOR THESE MATTERS ONLY, CORRECT? ONLY FOR THIS HEARING. RIGHT. IF THE PUBLIC COMMENT HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING BESIDES THE SUBJECT OF THIS HEARING, 'CAUSE THAT IS WHAT THIS RECORD IS FOR. IT COULD, THERE IS GONNA BE A SEPARATE PUBLIC COMMENT FOR ANYTHING ELSE AFTER THE HEARING AT OUR SECOND MEETING OF THE EVENING, CORRECT? TECHNICALLY AT BOTH. I, WE HAVE TO HAVE A PUBLIC COMMENT AT BOTH PUBLIC HE PUBLIC MEETINGS. OKAY. SO WE DO HAVE A REGULARLY SCHEDULED CALL. MEETING. MEETING. I JUST WANNA LET THE PUBLIC KNOW. OKAY. I HAD A QUICK QUESTION. WHAT WAS HE READING FROM THE, THE LIST HE WAS READING DIRECTLY FROM 76 DASH RESOLUTION 76? NO. NO. AND HE WAS READING THE CRITICISMS. WHERE WAS THAT FROM? THAT IS FROM THE TOWN COUNCIL'S RESOLUTION 76 DASH 2026, WHICH WAS ADOPTED ON MAY. OKAY. MARCH 17TH. OKAY. SO DOES ANYBODY FROM THE PUBLIC WANT TO PROVIDE ANY TESTIMONY IN FAVOR FOR OR AGAINST MR. RNS? MR. KERNS, JUST PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME, SPELL YOUR LAST FOR THE RECORD. BRIAN CARNES, TWO 16 CHURCH ROAD. AND ONLY BECAUSE IT'S A RECORD, IT'S A HEARING. I DO NEED YOU TO SPELL YOUR LAST NAME. C-A-R-N-S. THANK YOU, SIR. I WANT TO COMMEND COUNSEL FOR FIRE. AND DAN, I REALLY DO. AND I'M GONNA GO THROUGH A LIST. I LOVE IF WE, YOU GUYS SAID WE COULD ACTUALLY TALK BACK AND FORTH IF I SAY ANYTHING. NO, I'M WRONG ABOUT, NO, HE'S ALLOWED TO CROSS-EXAMINE YOU. YOU'RE ALLOWED TO PROVIDE COMMENTS. SO IF YOU MAKE A STATEMENT, HE'S ALLOWED TO CROSS YOU ON THE BASIS OF THAT STATEMENT. FEEL FREE TOO, DAN, IF I HAVE ANYTHING WRONG HERE. OKAY. UM, GIMME A SECOND. ALL RIGHT. WE, IT'S BEEN A LONG DAY. WE ACTUALLY LOST A HORSE AT THE FARM. HAD TO BUR HIM AND I'M, I, I HAD TO GET UP HERE AS FAST AS I COULD. YEAH. LITTLE MAN. REST IN PEACE. SO, LITTLE DISHEVELED TOO, GUYS. THIS WAS ANOTHER POOR DECISION BY, I BELIEVE THE SOLICITOR, THE OLD SOLICITOR AND OUR OLD MAYOR. IT MADE NO SENSE. THERE WAS SO MUCH FIRE IN PEMBERTON GOING ON AND THEN [00:25:01] WE HIRE HIM. I DON'T UNDERSTAND IT, BUT IT WAS THE FIRST TIME THAT I REALIZED THERE'S A HUGE CONNECTION BETWEEN THE OLD ADMINISTRATION AND PEMBERTON TOWNSHIP. HE DOES KNOW THE JUDGE THERE AND HE WAS PART, CLEARLY PART OF MY MOTHER GETTING ROASTED IN COURT. THERE'S PHOTOS OF HIM WITH THE JUDGE. THEY KNOW EACH OTHER GUYS, THERE'S NO REASON THAT JUDGE OVER THERE WOULD'VE THROWN THE BOOK AT US, OKAY? LIKE HE DID. HE DIDN'T EVEN HAVE A HORSE IN THE RACE. SO THAT'S THE FIRST THING THAT THE COMMUNITY NEEDS TO UNDERSTAND. WHETHER YOU CARE ABOUT US OR NOT, THE, AND I UNDERSTAND YOU CAN'T USE WHAT HAPPENED IN PEMBERTON NOW, BUT I'M GONNA TALK ABOUT IT. WE HAVE THREE FEMALES UP HERE, RIGHT? THE WOMEN IN PEMBERTON THAT WERE, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, WHAT HAPPENED IN PEMBERTON IS IRRELEVANT TO THE TOWNSHIP OF MEDFORD. IT ISN'T THOUGH. HE'S THE MANAGER OF THE TOWNSHIP WITH ALL DUE RE AND THESE THINGS ALL WENT ON THERE WITH ALL DUE S WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, THE TOWNSHIP COUNCIL'S FINDINGS ARE CONTAINED IN RESOLUTION 76 DASH 2026 AS A PRELIMINARY RESOLUTION. I UNDERSTAND WHAT HAPPENED IN TOWNSHIP OF PEMBERTON, BUT THAT IS IRRELEVANT, MS. COUNCIL, CONSIDER. ALRIGHT, LEMME CROSS THAT PART OUT, MAN. I THINK YOU SHOULD HAVE LET ME RUN WITH IT, BUT WHATEVER. IT'S OKAY. IT BOTHERS ME. WE ARE MEN. WE'RE SUPPOSED TO PROTECT WOMEN, RIGHT? WE ARE. DID NOTHING IN PEMBERTON. I GOT IT. SHOULD HAVE BLOWN THE WHISTLE. FINE. FAIR ENOUGH. LAST TIME. ALRIGHT, SO LET'S JUST GO TO THE PERFORMANCE PART HERE IN METFORD. OKAY? UM, THERE WAS A FEW THINGS MENTIONED. I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS SOMETHING ABOUT SAFETY, BUT I WANNA START UP WITH METFORD LAKES. NOW. WE HAVE A SHARED SERVICE WITH METFORD LAKES FOR SALT. OKAY? WE'VE HAD IT FOR, I DON'T KNOW, I GUESS IN FOR A REALLY LONG TIME. THEY'RE LAKERS, THEY'RE OUR NEIGHBORS, RIGHT? WE ALL LOVE EACH OTHER. WE'RE OUT THERE FOR THE CANOE CARNIVAL. I'M SURE THEY'RE HERE ENJOYING OUR TOWN. I UNDERSTAND THERE WAS A SHORTAGE OF SOUGHT, OKAY, AT LEAST FOR HERE. MOST OF THE OTHER TOWNS WERE ABLE TO FIGURE OUT, WORK IT OUT, ESPECIALLY THE PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT AND THE MANAGER. AND I KNOW THIS GUYS FOR EFFECT, THEY WERE ABLE TO, TO FIND THE, SOUGHT WHATEVER THE CASE IS. WE DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH SALT TO GIVE MEDFORD LAKES, BUT BY WHAT HAPPENED, OKAY? WAS BASICALLY WHAT I HEARD AND WHAT WAS IN, IN THE PAPERS AND EVERYTHING ELSE WAS WE BASICALLY TOLD 'EM TO BUZZ OFF. WE CAN'T HELP YOU. AND I THINK THAT THAT, THAT RIGHT THERE IS, IS, UH, SOMETHING TO ME THAT'S JUST CRAZY WHEN WE HAVE A MANAGER, I DON'T BELIEVE HE'S A MEFOR RESIDENT. I COULD BE WRONG, BUT YOU'RE COMING INTO OUR COMMUNITY AND YOU'RE PUSHING PEOPLE AROUND AROUND US. SECOND THING, THE FIRING OF THE HEAD OF PUBLIC WORKS, MIKE, JUST WINK OF HIM, RIGHT? MAN, NO, YOU DIDN'T KNOW. NOBODY KNEW THAT HE WAS CANNING THE HEAD OF PUBLIC WORKS. MY UNDERSTANDING, AND USUALLY THE INFORMATION I GET IS PRETTY CORRECT IS WHEN HE DID DO IT, PEOPLE REACHED OUT AND YOU COULDN'T EVEN GET AHOLD OF HIM. WHAT'S GOING ON HERE? HOW DO YOU HAVE SOMEBODY THAT HAS SO MUCH POWER THAT'S THAT'S, THAT'S FIRING PEOPLE AND THERE'S NO REPERCUSSIONS. I I KIND OF UNDERSTAND THE MANAGER'S THE MOST POWERFUL PERSON AND HE CAN ACTUALLY DO WHATEVER HE WANTS, RIGHT? IS THAT SORT OF LIKE THIS? HE DOESN'T NEED COUNSEL'S BLESSING. AGAIN, THERE'S NO QUESTIONS THAT ARE GONNA BE ANSWERED. YOU CAN PROVIDE YOUR TESTIMONY IN FAVOR FOR OR AGAINST, ALL RIGHT? THE FUNNY THING ABOUT THE FIRING OF THE HEAD OF PUBLIC WORKS IS, DO YOU KNOW WHAT? THAT OPENED UP A SEAT ON THE PLANNING BOARD THAT WASN'T FILLED. THAT PLANNING BOARD. I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED. I'M SURE I'LL NEVER, IIII, I I, I HAVE THIS IDEA THAT WHEN SOMEBODY COMES IN, LIKE, LIKE HIM, HE HAS, HE BRINGS IN HIS OWN GUYS OR PEOPLE THAT HE CAN TRUST. AND I THINK THAT YOU GUYS SHOULD DOWN THE LINE LOOK AT WHO WAS HIRED UNDER HIM. BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE IT IS. I BELIEVE IT WAS BUILD BABY BUILD. AND THAT'S WHY PRIME BROUGHT HIM IN HERE. IT MADE NO SENSE. YOU GUYS HAD 40 APPLICANTS, RIGHT? HOW ARE WE BRINGING IN SOMEBODY THAT HAS ALL THIS HEAT ON 'EM FROM PEMBERTON? I MEAN, I, I, I, ALL RIGHT, I UNDERSTAND. WE CAN'T TALK ABOUT THAT. I STILL WANT TO TALK ABOUT PEMBERTON. I THINK JUST FOR THE VICTIMS OVER THERE, THEY DESERVE IT. 'CAUSE WE SPIT IN THEIR FACE GUYS WHEN WE HIRED THEM. WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT PEMBERTON. ALRIGHT? LET'S GET TO THE PUBLIC SAFETY PART OF IT. OKAY? WE HAVE A WELL-RESPECTED RESIDENT HERE THAT SLIPPED AND FELL ON A CROSSWALK IN MEDFORD. IT HITS SOCIAL MEDIA. THERE'S A BUZZ. YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF A BUZZ THERE. THE FOLLOWING MEETING WHEN I COME IN HERE, YOUR MANAGER SPEAKS ABOUT [00:30:01] HOW IT'S THE COUNTY'S RESPONSIBILITY TO CLEAR MAIN STREET. I, I, MY UNDERSTANDING WHEN HE SPOKE WAS SIDEWALKS AND CROSSWALKS. I KNOW THEY DO THE STREETS. I CAME UP HERE AND I TALKED ABOUT IT GUYS. AND HOW ARE WE NOW BACK TO BLAMING THE COUNTY EVEN, WHICH IS NOT THE COUNTY'S RESPONSIBILITY. DOES ANYBODY IN HERE THINK THAT THE COUNTY SHOULD BE DOING THE SIDEWALKS AND THE CROSSWALKS? AGAIN, WE'RE FOCUSING ON WHETHER HE SHOULD BE REMOVED OR NOT REMOVED. WELL, I'M HELPING YOU BECAUSE JUST CONTINUE. NO SNOW WAS CLEARED. SOMEBODY GOT HURT. AND AT THE NEXT MEETING, THE COUNTY'S BLAMED, ISN'T IT A COUNTY ROAD? EXCUSE ME, JUST IF YOU'RE GONNA SPEAK, YOU HAVE TO COME UP TO THE MICROPHONE AT YOUR TIME. THIS IS A HEARING. YEAH. SO WE DO HAVE TO KEEP SPEAK. IT IS A COUNTY ROAD, BUT WE DO MAIN STREET. AND EVEN IF, LET'S JUST SAY, LET'S JUST SAY HE WAS RIGHT. SO WHAT DO WE JUST SIT BACK AND LET PEOPLE SLIP AND FALL IN OUR COMMUNITY AND GET HURT AND WE JUST WAIT FOR THE COUNTY TO SHOW UP? I'VE NEVER SEEN THE COUNTY OUT OF THEIR VEHICLES ON MAIN STREET. I KNOW THEY DON'T DO ANYTHING IN LUMBERTON. SO I JUST THOUGHT THAT WAS REALLY DISRESPECTFUL TO, TO, TO, TO THIS WOMAN THAT SLIPPED AND FELL. THE CROSS WORKS. WALKS WERE A MESS. WHETHER YOU WANT TO BLAME THE PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT OR WHAT, I THINK THAT EVEN IF YOU WERE TO SAY, OKAY, THE PUBLIC WORKS WAS HAVING PROBLEMS, WELL, I GUESS SO, MAN, WE REMOVED THE TOP GUY. I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE GUY THAT CAME UP UNDER IT, BUT I THOUGHT THE WHOLE THING WAS SHADY. AND I HOPE GUYS IN THE FUTURE, AND I'M NOT HERE TO TALK ABOUT THE REPLACEMENT. I HOPE THERE'S REAL RESPECT FROM THE MANAGER TO THE RESIDENTS OF THIS COMMUNITY, AND WE TAKE CARE OF THEM AND WE DON'T JUST BLOW STUFF OFF. THE LAST THING I WANNA SAY IS, I GUESS I CAN'T ASK YOU GUYS QUESTIONS. THE SALARY, AM I READING THIS RIGHT? $182,000 A YEAR. WE'RE PAYING FOR A MANAGER. IT'S NOT EVEN ANY FUNDS THAT'S COME UP HERE TALKING TO 'EM. I'M LOOKING FOR THE DIALOGUE. STOP LISTENING TO HIM, MAN. THE LAWYERS ARE SMALL. NOPE. THEY'RE GONNA LISTEN TO ME. ALL RIGHT. 182 GRAND GUYS. THERE'S AN AWFUL LOT OF MONEY. I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW HE GOT UP TO THAT NUMBER. MY UNDERSTANDING WAS, AND THERE WAS A MEETING A FEW WEEKS AGO, UM, THAT, THAT, THAT, THAT I BELIEVE HE WAS ASKING FOR RAISES AND TIME OFF TOO. I'M NOT HERE TO, TO, UM, TO SUGGEST THAT, THAT, WELL, I AM HERE. I THINK IT'S CRAZY GUYS. I REALLY DO. I THINK YOU NEED TO GET THE SALARY UNDER CONTROL. AND THERE IS RUMORS OUT THERE, JUST SO WE ALL UNDERSTAND THAT, THAT, THAT YOU GUYS WON'T EVEN MAKE PAYCHECKS. WE WON'T EVEN BE ABLE TO PAY THE, PAY THE EMPLOYEES HERE. AT THIS POINT, THE RATE WE'RE GOING SEPTEMBER, NOBODY GETS PAID. SO I DON'T, I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE BUDGET AND ALL THAT STUFF, OKAY? BUT I DO KNOW WE'RE IN REAL TROUBLE, IF THAT'S REALLY TRUE. IS THAT'S, I CAN'T ANSWER ME. RIGHT? THERE WILL BE A PUBLIC HEARING. I GOTTA ON THE BUDGET. GOTTA, AND YOU CAN ASK THAT QUESTION AT THAT TIME. YEAH, NO, WE GOTTA GET TOGETHER AND, UH, TALK ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED AT THE, THE FARM WITH THE HORSE. SO I'M NOT, I GOT A BOLT, BUT I GUESS THAT'S REALLY IT. I REALLY, I DO THINK THAT IT'S NOT FAIR THAT I CAN'T TALK ABOUT PEMBERTON 'CAUSE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT CHARACTER. IF YOU HAVE A MANAGER THAT'S, THAT'S INVOLVED WITH SO MANY EMPLOYEES, OKAY? I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY WE CAN'T TALK ABOUT THAT. WE'RE NOT DISCUSSING WHAT HAPPENED IN THE TOWNSHIP OF PEMBERTON. THIS HEARING IS FOR HIS WORK HERE AT THE TOWNSHIP OF MEDFORD, WHETHER HE SHOULD REMAIN AS THE TOWNSHIP MANAGER FOR THE TOWNSHIP OF MEDFORD. OKAY, WELL, I THINK THAT'S A WRAP, GUYS. ALL RIGHT. ONCE AGAIN, AND I KNOW THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE NOT HAPPY ABOUT THIS, AND I THINK THAT, UM, THEY DON'T COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND THE SCOPE. AND THOSE THAT DID THIS HIRING AREN'T HERE FOR A REASON. NOW, THINK ABOUT IT. THAT'S ALL GUYS. HAVE A GOOD NIGHT. THANK YOU. WOULD ANYONE ELSE LIKE TO SPEAK DURING THIS PUBLIC COMMENT SECTION ON THE HEARING? BOTH SIDES. MR. OL, WOULD YOU LIKE THIS GENTLEMAN SWORN IN? NO. HI, MY NAME IS AL FINKELSTEIN. I'M, UH, BOTH A RESIDENT AND A BUSINESS OPERATOR HERE IN MEDFORD. CAN YOU JUST SPELL YOUR LAST NAME FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE? SURE. F-I-N-K-E-L-S-T-E-I-N. AND YOUR ADDRESS? 1 0 7 PINE CONE TRAIL. TAKE IT AWAY. THANK YOU. UM, YEAH, JUST AS A, A LITTLE TESTIMONIAL, MR. HARLE, UM, A YEAR AND A HALF AGO, I CONTACT MY, MY MAIN MAIN, MY INTERACTION WITH TOWNSHIP IS RATHER LIMITED. I KIND OF EXPECT TOWNSHIP TO OPERATE AND TAKE CARE OF SERVICES AS THEY GO ALONG. AND FOR THE MOST PART, I'VE FOUND THAT THAT'S, THAT'S BEEN THE CASE. UM, BUT ABOUT A YEAR AND A HALF AGO, RIGHT ABOUT THE TIME MR. HORNER WAS HIRED, I CONTACTED THE TOWNSHIP ABOUT, UH, A LIGHT THAT WAS AT SEVERAL LIGHTS THAT WERE OUT IN OUR STREETLIGHTS THAT WERE OUT IN OUR DEVELOPMENT IN, UH, IN TAMARACK. THE RESPONSE WAS AMAZING, [00:35:01] ACTUALLY. THE RESPONSE WAS DONE WITHIN TWO DAYS AT THE MOST. ALL OF THE LIGHT FIXTURES WERE, WERE REPLACED. SO I I, I JUST FIND THAT THAT WAS VERY RESPONSIVE AND I THINK MR. HORNICK DESERVES SOME CREDIT. 'CAUSE HE WAS THE PERSON I CONTACTED. I DON'T KNOW MR. HORNICK. UM, I DO KNOW MR. WY AND I'M, AND, AND MR. WYS A A GREAT, UH, RESIDENT OF, OF THE TOWNSHIP. AND I, I'M SURE HE'LL DO A GREAT JOB AS, UM, TEMPORARILY, I GUESS AS AS TOWNSHIP MANAGER. BUT, UM, BUT I DO THINK, UM, MR. NIKAL ASKED FOR A VERY REASONABLE REQUEST, UM, IN HIS OWN, UM, UM, EFFORT TO MAKE A, TO, TO HAVE COUNSEL MAKE A, MAKE A STAND ON ON HIS REMOVAL. UM, ONE THING I WANNA MAKE, MAKE SURE IS REALLY CLEAR IS THAT IN ANY KIND OF WORK THAT WE'RE DOING, IT'S CLEAR THAT THERE'S BUDGET ISSUES IN THE TOWNSHIP. UM, IF, IF THIS IS BEING DONE FOR, FOR BUDGETARY REASONS, I, I, I REALLY HOPE THAT THAT'S, UM, REALLY SPELLED OUT AND, AND WE REALLY GET TO AN UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT WE SHOULD EXPECT AS RESIDENTS FROM THE, FROM THIS, THIS BUDGETARY WORK, BECAUSE THAT'S THE BOTTOM LINE, I SUPPOSE. UM, IT, IT NEEDS TO REALLY REFLECT THAT IN THE, IN THE FINAL RESULTS. TOWNSHIP SERVICES SHOULD CONTINUE JUST THE WAY THEY ARE. AND, AND, UH, I THINK MR. HORNER'S DONE A NICE JOB IN, IN THAT, IN THAT EFFORT. UM, AND I HOPE THOSE, THOSE, UH, SERVICES CONTINUE THE WAY THEY SHOULD BE. JUST AS A SIDE NOTE, JUST RECENTLY IN THE LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS, UH, I'VE NOTICED THAT TRASH REMOVAL HAS BEEN SORT OF DELAYED A LITTLE BIT. I'M NOT SURE WHAT, WHAT THE STORY IS BEHIND THAT, BUT, BUT, UM, BUT THAT'S JUST ONLY HAPPENED IN THE LAST FEW WEEKS, AND THAT'S KIND OF GOTTEN MY ATTENTION ALREADY A LITTLE BIT. THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY. THANK YOU, SIR. YES, SIR. SIR, CAN YOU, MY NAME IS ROBERT BOB MCALLEN. CAN YOU JUST SPELL YOUR LAST NAME? 12 DONINGTON BOULEVARD MEDFORD. AND YOU MAY ALSO SPELL YOUR LAST NAME AS WELL, PLEASE. MC CAPITAL G-O-W-A-N. TAKE IT AWAY. OKAY. I'M HERE TO SUPPORT MR. HARLE. I'VE KNOWN HIM FOR MANY YEARS. I WORKED WITH HIM AT BURLINGTON COUNTY. MANY ISSUES, MANY COMMITTEES, UH, PERSONNEL MATTERS, YOU NAME IT. HE'S ONE OF THE FINEST INDIVIDUALS I'VE EVER WORKED WITH, AND BELIEVE ME, I WORKED IN GOVERNMENT AND THE MILITARY ALL MY LIFE. I AM A VETERAN, A RETIRED MILITARY. SO, UH, WHEN I SPEAK, I SPEAK FROM EXPERIENCE. AND THIS IS ONE OF THE FINEST INDIVIDUALS I'VE EVER KNOWN IN LEADERSHIP AND LEADING A A, AN ORGANIZATION, ESPECIALLY GOVERNMENT. UH, AND HE DESERVES A LOT MORE CREDIT THAN HE'S GETTING HERE, THAT'S FOR SURE. WHEN I FIRST RAN INTO HIM HERE, UH, WHEN I WAS PAYING ONE OF THE MANY BILLS THAT I PAY TO THE TOWNSHIP, UH, OVER IN THE BUILDING, I RAN INTO MR. HORNO AND IT WAS LIKE A GREAT REUNION. AND WE WERE TALKING AND ONE OF THE, UH, EMPLOYEES WAS THERE. AND I SAID, THERE'S NO DOUBT IN MY MIND, THIS IS WHERE HE BELONGS. OKAY. THAT WAS MY, THEY WERE MY WORDS. YOU CAN CHECK WITH THE EMPLOYEES TO SEE IF I REALLY SAID THAT. I DON'T CARE. BUT THIS IS ONE OF THE FINEST INDIVIDUALS I'VE EVER KNOWN, UH, ON MANY, MANY, MANY SCORES. AND I STAND HERE BEFORE COUNSEL, BEFORE AN OPEN FORUM FOR AS I STOOD BEFORE AN OPEN FORUM WHEN THEY SOLD BUTTONWOOD HOSPITAL ON THE FORMER ADMINISTRATOR AT BUTTONWOOD HOSPITAL OF BURLINGTON COUNTY, STANDING IN DEFENSE OF BUTTONWOOD HOSPITAL BECAUSE IT WAS NOW STANDING PROVIDER FOR SERVICES OF ALL, UH, BURLINGTON COUNTY RESIDENTS AND THEIR FAMILIES. UM, SO AGAIN, I SPEAK FROM EXPERIENCE AND FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH WITH THE PEOPLE WHO ARE PRESENT HERE TODAY, YOU KNOW, YOU LISTEN TO PEOPLE LIKE MR. KAS. THERE'S AN OLD SAYING THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T PLEASE ALL THE PEOPLE ALL THE TIME. I DON'T THINK YOU CAN PLEASE HIM ANY OF THE TIME. AND, YOU KNOW, YEAH, PEMBERTON, THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HERE. WHATEVER HE'S DOING HERE, MR. VILLE, THAT'S WHAT YOU NEED TO DEAL WITH. UM, THE ONLY THING I ASK, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A PROBLEM IN THIS WHOLE COUNTRY THAT THE, UH, MAJORITY OF PARTY, THEY GET A BUG AND [00:40:01] THEY JUST STICK WITH IT. THEY DON'T CARE, OR LAWS DON'T PRECLUDE IT. SO JUST SAYING TO ALL THE PEOPLE HERE, PRESENT REAL PEOPLE, CITIZENS, WELL, YOU'RE CITIZENS TOO SHOULDN'T SAY THAT. AND THAT'S HOW YOU HAVE TO LOOK, LOOK AT IT. CITIZENS OF, UH, MEDFORD TOWNSHIP. ANYWAY, UH, I WOULD BET MY LIFE ON MR. HORNET, I'D GO INTO BATTLE WITH MR. HORNO. NOW, HE MAY TELL ME TO GO FIRST, BUT THAT'S OKAY. THAT'S WHAT LEADERS DO. OKAY. AND THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY. THANK YOU. OKAY, SIR, DID YOU HAVE YOUR HAND RAISED? YEAH, NOT YET. OKAY. CAN YOU JUST STATE YOUR NAME AND SPELL YOUR LAST FOR THE RECORD? YES. UM, GOOD EVENING. MY NAME IS BARBARA GARDNER. I LIVE AT TWO TWO H FOREST AVENUE. GARDNER IS G-A-R-D-N-E-R. TAKE IT AWAY. OKAY. UM, I'M PUZZLED. UM, I'VE BEEN TOLD THAT RESIDENTS WILL NOT KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON BECAUSE PERSONNEL MATTER MATTERS ARE HANDED HANDLED, UM, CONFIDENTIALLY TO COUNT BY COUNSEL, THAT'S FINE. BUT IN MY IMAGINATION AND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT DOES THIS MEAN? HOW DID THIS HAPPEN? I COULDN'T COME UP WITH ONLY TWO SCENARIOS BEING CLUELESS, UM, BASED ON MY WORK AS AN EMPLOYEE WITH NONPROFITS AND HOSPITALS AND, UM, IN, IN MY 70 SOME YEARS. UM, ONE IS THAT THE TOWNSHIP MANAGER DID SOME TERRIBLE FINANCIAL MALFEASANCE AND COUNSEL FOUND OUT ABOUT IT, AND YOU VOTED UNANIMOUSLY THAT THAT TELLS ME SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S SERIOUS. BY ALL MEANS, YOU KNOW, YOU MUST DISMISS A PERSON THAT IF THAT HAPPENS. THE OTHER SCENARIO IN MY MIND IS THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN FESTERING, MAYBE INTERPERSONALLY FOR A YEAR AND A HALF, OR MAYBE EVEN BEFORE, I DON'T KNOW. AND THAT THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON BEHIND THE SCENES. AND IF THAT'S THE CASE, UM, IN MY OWN, UM, EXPERIENCE, PEOPLE HAVE COME TO ME, MY SUPERIORS OR COLLEAGUES, AND SAID, HEY, BARB, WE WANT YOU TO DO BETTER HERE. OR, THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT WE'VE BEEN HAVING. PLEASE DON'T DO THIS OR DO THIS DIFFERENTLY. SO TO ME, THAT'S A COMMUNICATION PROBLEM THAT HAS NOT HAPPENED AMONGST YOU ALL BECAUSE I ASSUMED THAT EVERYBODY WORKS TOGETHER, THAT YOU DON'T TELL A MAYOR OR A TOWNSHIP MANAGER, WELL, DON'T TALK TO EVERYBODY, JUST TALK TO THIS PERSON. THAT, THAT SOUNDS CONFUSING TO ME, BUT I'VE NEVER BEEN IN ANY KIND OF CITY GOVERNMENT. UM, BUT BESIDES THAT, I WANT TO GIVE MY HISTORY FOR A YEAR MORE WITH MR. HORAL. HE'S BEEN WONDERFUL. AT ANY TIME I'VE CONTACTED HIM, HE'S BEEN LIKE, AMAZINGLY RESPONSIVE, PROFESSIONAL, UM, VERY HELPFUL. NOT ONLY ON OUR ISSUE IN LAKE PINES ABOUT OUR ROADS IN THE TOWNSHIP, UM, AND THE TOWNSHIP. THE ENTIRE TOWNSHIP ROADS ARE AWFUL, BUT THAT'S NOT TO BE COMMENTED RIGHT NOW. UM, AS WELL AS MY POSITION DOING SOME PROJECTS FOR MEDFORD AS PART OF THE PINELANDS GARDEN CLUB, HE SUPPORTED OUR BEAUTIFICATION PROJECTS BY WRITING LETTERS OF SUPPORT FOR WHAT WE'RE DOING FOR THE TOWNSHIP. SO, UM, I THINK HIS PROPOSAL, IF I UNDERSTAND IT, WAS SOUNDS TO ME VERY SIMPLE AND MAYBE EVEN GENEROUS. UM, I WONDER IF THIS NEW, UM, JOINT SERVICES AGREEMENT OR WHATEVER IT WAS CALLED, AND THE DISMISSAL OF OUR CURRENT TOWNSHIP MANAGER IS ACTUALLY GONNA COST THE TOWNSHIP MORE. UM, I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT WILL PLAY OUT IN THE BUDGET THING. UM, IT, IT CERTAINLY, I, I THINK IT'S A VERY SAD THING, AND I WISH SOMETHING HAD HAPPENED BEFORE THAT COULD HAVE PREVENTED THIS. SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH, DAN, FOR EVERYTHING YOU'VE DONE FOR US BEDFORD. THANK YOU. OKAY, SIR, [00:45:01] PLEASE JUST STATE YOUR NAME AND SPELL YOUR LAST FOR THE RECORD, SIR. KEVIN SPARKMAN. S-P-A-R-K-M-A-N. AND YOUR, IT'S, UH, 1 28 BRACKEN ROAD. TAKE IT AWAY. UM, I DON'T HAVE A LOT OF EXPERIENCE, UH, WITH MR. HORAL. I THINK I REACHED OUT, UH, A COUPLE OF TIMES TO THE OFFICE, UH, THINGS RELATED. I ALSO LIVE IN, UH, TAMARACK. UM, YOU, I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THE, THE PROCESS. UM, EVEN LISTENING, I, YOU KNOW, I'VE READ THE, READ THE RESOLUTION. I'VE BEEN TO SOME OTHER MEETINGS, AND I HEARD, YOU KNOW, MR. LES'S DEFENSE OF HIMSELF. UM, I, I DON'T KNOW. AND LISTENING TO IT, THERE'S DOESN'T SEEM LIKE THERE'S THIS ONE SMOKING GUN THAT'S LIKE, THIS IS THE REASON THAT, YOU KNOW, UH, YOU'RE FIRING OR TRYING TO FIRE MR. MR. CLE. YOU KNOW, UNFORTUNATELY, THIS TOWNSHIP HAS A LONG HISTORY OF, UM, SORT OF MANAGEMENT PROBLEMS, UH, CYCLING THROUGH TOWNSHIP MANAGERS. UM, AND IT, AND IT REALLY HASN'T BEEN, YOU KNOW, PRETTY OVER THE YEARS, UM, YOU KNOW, THE LAST, UH, COUNCIL MEETING OR THE LAST BUDGET MEETING, UM, YOU KNOW, WAS SHOCKED TO LEARN, YOU KNOW, ABOUT, YOU KNOW, ONCE AGAIN, WE'RE IN THIS SORT OF FISCAL CRISIS OR FACING THIS, YOU KNOW, FISCAL CRISIS IN THE COMING, UH, YEAR OR SO. UM, I DON'T THINK THAT'S MR. HORNIK'S DOING, UH, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S, YOU KNOW, IMPLIED AS PART OF THE REASON THAT YOU'RE, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE TRYING TO FIRE HIM, YOU KNOW, OR NOT. UM, BUT I HOPE THAT MORE MEDFORD RESIDENTS REALLY DO PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT'S, WHAT'S GOING ON, YOU KNOW, RIGHT NOW WITH THE BUDGET, BECAUSE IT'S JUST, YOU KNOW, OVERALL LACK OF LEADERSHIP OF, YOU KNOW, THIS COUNCIL AND, YOU KNOW, YOUR PREDECESSORS, YOU KNOW, ON THIS BOARD, UH, THAT HAVE PUT US IN THIS SITUATION. I DON'T REALLY THINK IT'S THE TOWNSHIP MANAGER'S, YOU KNOW, UH, UH, FAULT. I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THE, THIS, THIS PROCESS THOUGH. CERTAINLY, UM, YOU KNOW, THE, THE CREATION OF SHARED SERVICES TO BRING MR. UMBA INTO THE PICTURE, IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S JUST AN ON-RAMP TO BRING MR. AMBA IN AS A TOWNSHIP MANAGER. AND THAT'S, THAT'S REALLY TROUBLING. UM, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU LOOK AT HIS WORK HISTORY, HIS WORK RECORD AS A TOWNSHIP MANAGER ADMINISTRATOR, UM, I WOULD PUT MR. HARLE, YOU KNOW, ABOVE THAT. AND MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT IN FACT, YOU INTERVIEWED MR. OBA AND MR. HAR, UH, UH, MR. HARLE FOR THIS JOB, AND SELECTED MR. HARLE. SO, UM, I HOPE IT'S NOT A, A QUID PRO QUO SITUATION. YOU KNOW, MR. UMBA IS A, IS A POLITICAL LEADER IN THIS TOWNSHIP, UH, AND HE PROBABLY IS IN FACT RESPONSIBLE FOR AT LEAST THREE OF YOU FOR BEING ON THIS COUNCIL, THAT HE HAD SOME ROLE IN DECIDING THAT YOU GUYS WOULD BE THE CANDIDATES, THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES TO SERVE IN THIS COUNCIL. SO, UM, YOU KNOW, I, I THINK IT'S REALLY TROUBLING IF WE'RE HEADING IN THAT DIRECTION. YOU KNOW, ASSUMING THAT MR. KEL IS NO LONGER GOING TO BE THE TOWNSHIP MANAGER, I REALLY HOPE THAT YOU TAKE THIS SERIOUSLY IN TERMS OF GOING OUT AND SEARCHING FOR A NEW TOWNSHIP MANAGER. AND IF MR. UMBA WANTS TO THROW HIS NAME INTO THAT, THAT SEARCH, AND THAT'S FINE, BUT I THINK WE DESERVE BETTER. YOU KNOW, MEDFORD, YOU KNOW, FOR ONCE DESERVES BETTER IN TERMS OF A, A TOWNSHIP MANAGER. I'M NOT SAYING NECESSARILY SAYING BETTER THAN MR. KEL, BECAUSE HONESTLY, I DON'T KNOW IF HE'S, HE'S A GOOD TOWNSHIP MANAGER, YOU KNOW, OR NOT. UM, BUT, YOU KNOW, I, I REALLY, YOU KNOW, DO THINK THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, THIS, THIS CONCERN NOT ONE INTO CONSPIRACY THEORIES, BUT THIS, THIS CONCERN THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS DRIVEN IN PART BY YOUR, UH, YOUR DESIRE, YOUR EFFORTS TO BRING MR. RUMBA IN AS A TOWNSHIP MANAGER IS REALLY, REALLY TROUBLING. UH, SO, AND I, I URGE EVERYBODY TO KEEP, KEEP AN EYE ON THIS, UH, TO HOLD YOU GUYS TO ACCOUNT. THANK YOU, SIR, PLEASE JUST STATE YOUR NAME AND SPELL YOUR LAST FOR THE RECORD. SURE. ZACH WILSON. UH, W-I-L-S-O-N. AND YOUR ADDRESS, PLEASE? 51 NORTH MAIN STREET. TAKE IT AWAY. UM, SO, YOU KNOW, I, I'M NOT GONNA PRETEND TO UNDERSTAND THE FAULKNER ACT AND, AND HOW THIS ALL WORKS BETWEEN COUNCIL AND THE TOWN MANAGER. I KNOW THAT IT'S VERY COMPLICATED AND I DON'T ENVY YOUR POSITION OF HAVING TO MANAGE THAT YOURSELVES AND THEN DEAL WITH, UH, WHAT HAD SOME TYPE OF EMPLOYMENT SITUATION WITH THE MANAGER. SO, UM, I AM A MANAGER THOUGH, AND I DO UNDERSTAND THE COMPLEXITIES THERE, SO I UNDERSTAND THE, THE ROLE THAT YOU'RE IN, IN THAT REGARD. UM, IN TERMS OF MR. HORAL AND HIS PERFORMANCE SO FAR, UM, I THINK THAT THERE ARE PO ABSOLUTE POSITIVES THAT YOU CAN LOOK AT SINCE HE'S COME INTO HIS POSITION THAT I THINK SHOULD BE LOOKED AT. UM, HAVING DEALT WITH PEOPLE AT THE TOWNSHIP [00:50:01] BUILDING BEFORE MR. KEL CAME IN, AND AFTER, I CAN TELL YOU THAT THE VIBE IS DIFFERENT, UM, IT IS A DIFFERENT CULTURE. IT FEELS LIKE WHEN YOU GO IN, IT IS A HELPFUL CULTURE, AND THAT WAS NOT THERE WHEN PREVIOUS MANAGERS WERE IN CHARGE. UM, I FIND THAT IT IS NOT A TASK NOW TO GO TO THE TOWN HALL AND GET THINGS DONE, AND I, AND I DO HAVE TO SAY THAT THAT IT, THAT ABSOLUTELY COINCIDED WITH MR. OGLE COMING IN. UM, I FIND THAT HE IS FAR MORE OPEN TO FEEDBACK THAN PRIOR MANAGERS HAVE BEEN, AND I THINK THAT THAT SHOULD BE CONSIDERED, UM, AS FAR AS SOME OF THE REASONS THAT YOU'VE PROVIDED AS TO THE SEPARATION, UM, I THINK IF SOME OF THOSE PIECES ARE VALID, I'M GONNA GET TO SOME OF THOSE IN A, IN A MOMENT. I THINK THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, THEY, THERE MAY BE GROUNDS FOR YOU TO SEPARATE AND I DON'T KNOW THAT I HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION TO SPEAK TO THAT. AND I THINK THAT'S PART OF MY CONCERN HERE AS I'M GONNA CONTINUE ON. UM, HOWEVER, I WOULD LIKE TO JUST OFFER SOME DEVIL'S ADVOCACY HERE FOR A MOMENT. IN TERMS OF WHAT HAS BEEN DELIVERED, UM, HAVING SERVED ON A SUBCOMMITTEE LAST YEAR, WE AGREED TO PUSH FOR CERTAIN ACTIONS COMING OUT OF THAT IN THE VILLAGE, INCLUDING REPAVING. AND I DON'T KNOW, I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH OF THIS RESIDES UNDER MR. HORWELL AND WHAT HE NEEDS TO, WHAT HE SHOULD BE PUSHING FOR, BUT WE AGREED TO COME OUT AND PUSH THE COUNTY FOR REPAVING AFTER ALION ROAD WAS CONSTRUCTION WAS FINISHED, NOT AFTER IT WAS REPAVED, BUT AFTER THE CONSTRUCTION WAS FINISHED, THAT HASN'T BEEN DONE. AND CONSEQUENTLY, THE LINE PAVING HASN'T BEEN DONE. WE HAVEN'T SEEN ADDITIONAL SIGNAGE COMING OUT OF THAT LIKE WE RECOMMENDED FROM THE SUBCOMMITTEE. SO I DO SEE DEFICIENCIES THERE. I DO THINK THAT THERE HAS BEEN A DEGRADATION IN SERVICES, UH, THAT DOES PREDATE THE ISSUES WITH REPUBLIC OVER THE LAST, UH, FEW WEEKS. THEY HAVE GOTTEN WORSE FOR SURE. SO I DO HOPE SOMEBODY AT, UH, THE OFFICE HAS TAKING CARE OF THAT. BUT I HAVE NOTICED THAT THOSE PREDATE THE MARCH 17TH MEETING, AND WE'VE HAD OTHER ISSUES WITH SERVICES INCLUDING BRUSH PICKUP AND OTHER, UH, TOWNSHIP SERVICES BEING DEFICIENT THERE. SO, UM, FROM THAT, FROM THAT STANDPOINT, I DO UNDERSTAND THAT, UM, AGAIN, I DON'T RELISH YOU AND YOUR DECISION, UM, THAT YOU HAVE TO MAKE IN THIS REGARD. I UNDERSTAND THAT IT'S TOUGH AS A MANAGER. UM, I DO WANT TO TALK THOUGH, AS A MANAGER AND HAVING WORKED WITH, UH, HAVING MANAGERS REPORT TO ME AND GUIDING THEM THROUGH THE PERFORMANCE MANAGEMENT CYCLE, THE LIST OF REASONS THAT I READ AND WHAT YOU'VE PROVIDED READ, LIKE A POST HOC WRITEUP THAT JUSTIFIES THE DECISION THAT YOU HAD ALREADY MADE. I HAVE WORKED WITH MANY COUNT, MANY MANAGERS IN THE PAST THAT WHEN THEY HAVE, WHEN THEY'VE DECIDED THEY NO LONGER WANT TO HAVE A PERSON AND THEIR EMPLOYEE, THEY COME UP WITH THE REASONS AFTER THE FACT. AND THERE ARE OFTEN VERY LITTLE SPECIFICS THAT GO ALONG WITH THOSE REASONS. I DO UNDERSTAND THAT FROM A EMPLOYMENT STANDPOINT, YOU MAY NOT BE ABLE TO FULLY LIST OUT THOSE REASONS, BUT SOME OF THESE REASONS THAT YOU HAVE IN HERE, INCLUDING FAILURE TO DELIVER INSTRUCTIONS FROM THE COUNSEL AND TAKE ACTION BASED ON THE COUNSEL, THAT SHOULD BE A MATTER OF PUBLIC RECORD, AND WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO LIST THOSE OUT AND SEE THAT INFORMATION. I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY THAT WOULD BE PRIVATE. UM, JUST AS WITH THOSE MANAGERS THAT I HAVE HAD TO GUIDE THROUGH THIS PERFOR, THOSE PERFORMANCE MANAGEMENT CYCLES, I, I WOULD ASK TO POINT BACK TO THE DOCUMENTATION OF PROGRESSIVE DISCIPLINE OF ONGOING COMMUNICATION WITH THAT EMPLOYEE TO BOTH IMPROVE THEIR PERFORMANCE AND DEMONSTRATE THE IMPROVEMENT OF THAT PERFORMANCE. THERE SHOULD BE RECORDS OF THAT, BECAUSE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT MUNICIPAL MANAGEMENT, THOSE SHOULD BE OPEN RECORDS. AND SO THERE SHOULDN'T BE A PROBLEM TALKING ABOUT THAT. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT LAID OUT. I'D LIKE TO SEE THAT BE PART OF THE RECORD IF THE, WE ARE TERMINATING AN EMPLOYEE BECAUSE AS WOULD THE MANAGERS THAT I HAVE COUNSELED, IF WE DON'T TAKE THOSE ACTIONS, IF WE DON'T HAVE THAT DOCUMENTATION, IF WE CAN'T POINT TO THAT HISTORY, WE WOULD OPEN OURSELVES AS AN EMPLOYER UP TO WRONGFUL TERMINATION LAWSUITS. AND I AM CONCERNED THAT IF WE DON'T HAVE THOSE SAME PRECAUTIONS HERE, THAT WE ARE ALSO SIMILARLY OPENING OURSELVES UP TO POTENTIAL LAWSUITS THAT WILL COST US MORE IN THE LONG RUN THAN HAVING MR. NIKKEL STAY ON THROUGH HIS CONTRACT. SO I WOULD WANT TO KNOW, AS A CITIZEN, AS A VOTER, AS YOUR EMPLOYER, DO WE HAVE THOSE RECORDS? AND CAN WE SHOW THAT TO PREVENT THAT WRONGFUL TERMINATION LAWSUIT? AND IF WE DON'T, THEN AS I WOULD COUNSEL MY MANAGERS, WHEN THEY'RE TRYING TO TAKE THESE ACTIONS, I WOULD URGE YOU TO GO BACK AND WORK WITH THAT EMPLOYEE, TAKE THOSE PROGRESSIVE ACTIONS, DEMONSTRATE IT ON PAPER SO THAT IF THE TIME COMES WHERE [00:55:01] THOSE ACTIONS TRULY DO WARRANT A TERMINATION, YOU HAVE THE BACKUP TO SHOW THAT. SO THAT WAY YOU NEGATE, YOU MITIGATE THAT RISK. MY FINAL NOTE ON THIS IS THAT WE ALL HAVE HEARD ABOUT THE BUDGET ISSUES THAT WE ARE FACING. I CAN'T REMEMBER MR. OL'S TENURE AND WHEN HE CAME ON IN TERMS OF WHEN THE 2025 BUDGET WAS PASSED. IT WOULD'VE BEEN EARLY IN 2025, I ASSUME. I DON'T THINK HE WAS ON THE JOB FOR THAT LONG. I QUESTIONED HOW MUCH INPUT HE WAS ABLE TO EVEN GET INTO THAT, THAT BUDGET, AND HOW MUCH HE SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE TO THAT DEPENDING ON WHEN HIS EMPLOYMENT STARTED. HOWEVER, I DO KNOW THAT WE ARE FACING A CRISIS WITH OUR CURRENT BUDGET, AND YOU'RE ABOUT TO SWITCH HORSES MIDSTREAM. YOU'RE GONNA GO FROM SOMEBODY WHO KNOWS OUR PROCESSES, WHO UNDERSTANDS THE BUDGET, WHO WAS THERE WHEN MANY OF THESE FIGURES AND THESE STUDIES THAT WENT INTO THE CURRENT BUDGET WERE PUT TOGETHER. HE KNOWS THAT INFORMATION AND YOU'RE ABOUT TO LET HIM GO AND BRING ON SOMEBODY WHO DOESN'T HAVE THAT INFORMATION TO USE THE INTERIM SERVICES OF SOMEBODY WHO DOES NOT HAVE YEARS AND YEARS OF TOWN MANAGEMENT SUPPORT. THERE ARE REASONS THAT I WOULD NOT WANT TO THROW MY FULL SUPPORT BEHIND MR. HORNICK, BUT THERE ARE REASONS WHY I THINK IT'S VALID TO RECONSIDER YOUR DECISION RIGHT NOW AND SAY THAT MAYBE WE DON'T HAVE TO TAKE DRASTIC ACTION THIS QUICKLY. SO, THANK YOU. WOULD ANYONE ELSE LIKE TO SPEAK DURING THIS PUBLIC HEARING? SIR, HOW ARE YOU? JUSTIN, YOU STATE YOUR NAME AND SPELL YOUR LAST FOR THE RECORD. JUSTIN MCGINNIS, M-C-G-I-N-N-I-S 54 NORTH LAKESIDE DRIVE, WEST BURWOOD. TAKE IT AWAY. SO, UM, JUST TO GET IT OUTTA THE WAY, THIS IS MY UNCLE, SO IT'S, UH, PERSONAL FOR ME. UM, BUT AS FAR AS IT GOES, UH, CHARACTER WISE, I'VE KNOWN HIM MY WHOLE LIFE. HE'S AN HONEST, TRUSTWORTHY CHRISTIAN MAN. AND, UH, I STAND BY HIM EVERY DAY 'CAUSE I KNOW HE'S A GOOD MAN AND HE CARED AND HE WORKED HARD. AND, UH, I KNOW, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF POLITICS INVOLVED. I'VE BEEN AROUND POLITICS MY WHOLE LIFE. MY FATHER WAS THE MAYOR OF A TOWNSHIP. MY MOTHER WAS ON COUNCIL. I KNOW WHAT THIS, THIS WHOLE SYSTEM IS. I FOLLOWED THE NEWS. I WATCH TOO MUCH, YOU KNOW, UM, I JUST WANT YOU GUYS TO KNOW LIKE HE'S A GOD, HONEST, GOOD, HONEST PERSON. SO I HOPE THAT WHATEVER DECISION YOU MAKE, YOU CAN, YOU CAN REST ASSURED THAT YOU MADE IT AS AN HONEST GOD-FEARING PERSON, THAT YOU'RE, YOU'RE DOING IT IN A, IN A, IN A MATTER THAT'S, UH, HONEST AND TRUTHFUL. UM, SOME OF THE, YOU KNOW, REBUTTALS, I, I I, I, I FELT THERE WAS A LOT OF, UH, LACK OF SUBSTANCE, YOU KNOW, WITH SOME OF THESE CHARGES ON THIS, ON THIS, UH, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER THE TERM IS FOR IT. UM, YEAH, I DON'T KNOW. I GUESS THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY. I JUST, I JUST FEEL, YOU KNOW, I'VE LIVED HERE EIGHT YEARS. I LOVE THIS TOWN. I GREW UP IN TABERNACLE. I MEAN, I'M A BROWNS COUNTY KID, SO I, UH, JUST HOPE YOU GUYS DO RIGHT BY US, RIGHT BY THE TOWNSHIP. I, BELIEVE ME, I HATE THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING STUFF. I MEAN, UH, I LOVE THIS TOWN, SO PLEASE DO. RIGHT. GOOD NIGHT. THANK YOU. WOULD ANYONE ELSE LIKE TO SPEAK DURING THE PUBLIC HEARING? YES. HI, EVERYONE, PLEASE. JUST JIN SINGH. THANK YOU. JUST, UH, SPELL YOUR LAST FOR THE RECORD. UH, EXCUSE ME. JUST SPELL YOUR LAST FOR THE RECORD. OH, UH, MY NAME? YES, YOUR LAST NAME. JIN SINGH. I SAID NO, JUST SPELL IT THOUGH. S-I-N-G-H. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. AND YOUR ADDRESS? UH, 5 59 MCMAN ROAD. MEDFORD NEW JERSEY CAME OUT OF TAX SEASON AND, YOU KNOW, THERE'S ALWAYS FIREWORKS, UM, HERE IN MEDFORD, YOU KNOW, AND I HEARD THIS NEWS, THIS IS FIREWORKS, YOU KNOW, BEFORE 4TH OF JULY. I JUST THINK THAT WE MAKE RASH DECISIONS SOMETIMES, AND THIS LOOKS LIKE ONE, I WILL JUST LET YOU KNOW. I MEAN, MY EMPLOYER FACED A WRONGFUL TERMINATION SUIT IN THE PAST, AND THIS SMELLS SO MUCH. I MEAN, THERE'S A LOT OF TROUBLE HERE BY DOING THIS SO QUICKLY NOW, I'VE HEARD, YOU KNOW, I'VE, I'VE TALKED TO MR. HORNICK A FEW TIMES BEFORE HE'S ANSWERED THE QUESTIONS THAT I'VE ASKED, YOU KNOW, BUT TO HAVE A CANDIDATE THAT IS VERY POLITICALLY MOTIVATED, REPLACE HIM SO QUICKLY, I DON'T THINK IS IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THIS TOWN. DOESN'T LOOK GOOD FOR US [01:00:01] AS A TOWN. YOU KNOW, I'M, I'M TALKING, YOU KNOW, REGARDLESS OF POLITICAL AFFILIATIONS, WE SHOULD NOT MAKE RASH DECISIONS AS A COUNCIL, I WOULD SAY WHATEVER I'M SEEING, WHATEVER I HEAR, WHATEVER I READ OR DOING BETTER JOB THAN WHAT WAS DONE IN THE PAST, PEOPLE ARE BEING HEARD. THERE ARE THINGS THAT ARE BEING, YOU KNOW, CHANGES ARE COMING, BUT THIS IS A VERY RASH DECISION FOR A COUNCIL TO MAKE. YOU HAVE THE POWER TO NOT MAKE IT, TO HOLD BACK, TO THINK THROUGH THIS AND THEN, YOU KNOW, CONSIDER EVERY POTENTIAL CANDIDATE IN THE LONG RUN. WHO WOULD, YOU KNOW? AND WHY ARE WE REPLACING SOMEONE RIGHT NOW? WHAT, WHAT IS THE MOTIVATION BEHIND IT? THAT'S WHAT I HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO FATHOM OR PUT TOGETHER SO FAR. SO PLEASE, LET'S, LET'S DO THE RIGHT THING. LET'S WAIT. LET'S NOT JUMP THE GUN. AND THIS REALLY LOOKS AND SMELLS REALLY BAD, POLITICALLY MOTIVATED. I'M CLEARLY SAYING THAT'S WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE, AND I HOPE IT'S NOT THAT. THANK YOU. ANYONE ELSE JUST NEED A MOTION TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING PORTION OF THIS HEARING. MOTION TO CLOSE. I'LL MAKE THE MOTION SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. ALL RIGHT, MR. HOEL, JUST BEFORE YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO PROVIDE YOUR CLOSING STATEMENT, UM, THERE'S JUST ONE THING THAT WAS COMMENTED UPON IN THE BEGINNING OF YOUR PRESENTATION AS WELL AS MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC. UM, IN TERMS OF THE PROCESS AND DUE PROCESS IN THE LAW, JUST FOR, GENERALLY FOR MEMBERS OF PUBLIC AND COUNSEL, THERE'S TWO DIFFERENT LEVELS OF DUE PROCESS. THERE'S PRE DEPRIVATION DUE PROCESS AND POST DEPRIVATION DUE PROCESS. NOW YOU'RE ENTITLED TO A PUBLIC HEARING OR A HEARING PRIOR TO BEING DEPRIVED OF A RIGHT WHEN IT'S GUARANTEED BY STATUTE, ORDINANCE, OR PUBLIC UNDERSTANDING. HERE, THE STATUTE, WHICH GUARANTEES MR. HORNIK PRE DEPRIVATION DUE PROCESS IS 40 69 A DASH 93, WHICH IS WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE. NOW, IN TERMS OF THIS PROCEDURE, THIS EXACT PROCESS, WHEN WE LOOK FOR WHAT LEVEL OF DUE PROCESS SHOULD BE APPLIED, WE LOOK AT THE STATUTE FIRST AND WE SEE, DOES THAT STATUTE SPELL OUT HOW THIS HEARING SHOULD BE CONDUCTED? THE STATUTE DOES NOT. BUT THERE WAS A CASE, BOWEN VERSUS LONG BRANCH, AND ITS CITATION IS 79 NJ SUPER, 1 77. NOW, THIS HEARING, HOW IT'S BEING CONDUCTED IS IDENTICAL TO THE MANNER BY WHICH THE TOWNSHIP MANAGER'S HEARING WAS CONDUCTED IN THE BOWEN VERSUS LONG BRANCH MATTER, WHICH THIS COURT REVIEWED. IT'S A PUBLISHED DECISION, SO IT'S PRESIDENTIAL AND FOUND APPROPRIATE. SO THERE'S NOTHING NEFARIOUS ABOUT THE MANNER BY WHICH THIS HEARING IS JUST FOR THE COUNCIL'S, UH, LUXURY AS WELL, FOR WHY IT'S BEING DONE THIS WAY. THIS IS THE TRIED METHOD, AND THIS WAS THE METHOD BY WHICH A COURT HAS FOUND APPROPRIATE. SO, JUST FOR THAT, THAT WAS THE ONLY POINT OF CLARIFICATION. JUST FOR THE RECORD AS WELL, MR. HORAL, YOU MAY CERTAINLY MAKE A CLOSING ARGUMENT AS TO WHY I'M INCORRECT, UM, AS WELL AS YOUR CLOSING STATEMENT. IT'S A SHAME THAT, UM, MR. CARNES HAS GOT SOME KIND OF INDEBT AGAINST ME. IT'S A SHAME THAT HE KEEPS BRINGING UP PEMBERTON TOWNSHIP BECAUSE AS COUNSEL POINTED OUT, HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MEDFORD. IN FACT, JUST, UH, ONE SIDE NOTE ON THAT, I NEVER GOT TO GIVE MY SIDE IN PEMBERTON TOWNSHIP. I NEVER GOT TO GET DEPOSED IN THOSE CASES. SO PEOPLE CAN COME UP AND SAY IRRESPONSIBLE THINGS ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IN PEMBERTON TOWNSHIP, IGNORANT THINGS ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IN PEMBERTON TOWNSHIP, BUT I WAS THERE. THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MEDFORD. UM, IN MEDFORD, NOBODY'S COME FORWARD. NONE OF THE POLICE HAVE COME FORWARD COMPLAINING ABOUT THE TOWNSHIP MANAGER OR WANTING TO SUE THE TOWNSHIP MANAGER. PEMBERTON'S EVEN A DIFFERENT FORM OF GOVERNMENT. MY BOSS WAS THE MAYOR. HOW MANY OF YOU CAN TELL YOUR BOSS WHAT TO DO? BELIEVE ME, I TRIED , I TRIED, PLEASE DON'T SAY THAT KIND OF STUFF. BUT AGAIN, THAT'S DIFFERENT PLACE, DIFFERENT TIME. I DIDN'T ASK ANYBODY TO COME TO THIS MEETING. I CAME UP HERE AND I PRESENTED PIECE BY PIECE WHAT I COULD DEFEND AGAINST AND WHAT I COULDN'T BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF SPEC SPECIFICITY. AND I'M OFFERING YOU, AGAIN, A REASONABLE OPPORTUNITY TO TREAT ME WITH THE DIGNITY I DESERVE FOR THE WORK I DID FOR YOU, EVEN IF IT WAS JUST FOR A SHORT TIME, FOR SUMMARY. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. SO AT THIS TIME, COUNSEL, UM, YOU'RE WELCOME TO DELIBERATE SPEAK AMONGST YOURSELVES OUT LOUD, BUT THE PUBLIC, [01:05:01] UH, WHAT YOUR THOUGHTS ARE. ULTIMATELY, THERE ARE TWO RESOLUTIONS FOR YOU GUYS TO CHOOSE BETWEEN THE FIRST, I JUST TAKE ONE AND PASSING. THE FIRST IS, GOING FIRST IS GONNA BE A RESOLUTION, REPEALING RESOLUTION 76 DASH 2026. IN REINSTATING DANIEL HORAL AS TOWNSHIP MANAGER. THE ALTERNATE RESOLUTION THAT YOU AS A TOWNSHIP COUNSEL WILL HAVE TO ACT ON IS FINAL RESOLUTION OF REMOVAL OF THE TOWNSHIP MANAGER PURSUANT TO NJSA 40 69 A DASH 93, AND AFFIRMING, AFFIRMING THE REASONING SET FORTH IN RESOLUTION 76 DASH 26. IN THE EVENT OF THE TOWNSHIP COUNSEL, YOU DESIRE TO ACT UPON RESOLUTION OF THE FINAL RESOLUTION AND DESIRE ANY OF THE REASONING SET FORTH IN RESOLUTION NUMBER 76 DASH 26 TO BE STRICKEN FROM THE FINAL RESOLUTION. YOU CERTAINLY MAY REQUEST TO DO SO. EACH NUMBER OF ONE THROUGH 11 ARE NU ARE ORDERED NUMERICALLY ON PAGE ONE TO PAGE TWO, AND ARE COPIED VERBATIM FROM THE PRELIMINARY RESOLUTION 76 DASH 2026. UM, SO AT THIS POINT, THE FLOOR IS YOURS TO DECIDE HOW AND WHAT YOUR PLEASURE IS, AND CERTAINLY PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO READ IT. YOU HAVE NEVER SEEN THESE BEFORE 'CAUSE I BROUGHT THEM TODAY. THANK YOU. AND SIR, JUST FOR THE RECORD HERE, UM, WE HAVE GONE INTO THE PREVIOUSLY SCHEDULED TIME FOR OUR SECOND BUDGET MEETING, BUT WE ARE STILL CURRENTLY JUST FOR THE PUBLIC. THAT'S, THAT'S COMING NOW. WE'RE STILL IN OUR FIRST MEETING THAT STARTED AT FIVE 30. WE HAVEN'T STARTED THE BUDGET MEETING. CORRECT. THIS MATTER ADJOURNS. WE'RE GONNA RESTART. WE'RE GONNA RESTART WITH THE SECOND NORMAL CAUCUS BUDGET HEARING. THANK YOU. . OH, YEAH, YEAH. YOU HAVE TWO OF THESE? YEAH, TWO. OKAY. I, I JUST WANNA SAY, I WILL SAY FOR THE RECORD, I HAVE, I DO HAVE RAISED CONCERNS ABOUT ACTING ON ANY RESOLUTION THAT WE ARE JUST RECEIVING. NOW. I KNOW THAT WE, THAT WE JUST HAD THE HEARING, BUT I WISH WE WOULD BE, COUNSEL WOULD'VE BEEN PROVIDED THESE RESOLUTIONS EITHER EARLIER TODAY FOR CONSIDERATION OR ON FRIDAY WHEN WE RECEIVED OUR PACKET FOR US TO REVIEW. SO WE KNEW WHAT ACTUALLY WOULD BE TAKEN THIS EVENING BECAUSE I HAVE, I DO HAVE GREAT CONCERN ABOUT ACTUAL EITHER OF THESE RESOLUTIONS AT THIS TIME. I WOULD, I WOULD AGREE AT THE SAME THING. I'M, I WAS IN THE DARK ABOUT MUCH OF WHAT WENT ON AND I'M NOT HAPPY WITH THE WHOLE PROCESS. IT WAS SUPPOSEDLY PEOPLE WERE GOING TO CALL ME AND CHAT WITH ME, BUT I DON'T THINK I GOT ALL THE INFORMATION. AND IT'S IMPORTANT. AND THIS MIGHT COST US MORE MONEY BY THE TIME WE'RE FINISHED. WHAT WOULD BE THE, FOR, FOR THE RECORD, I MEAN, IN RESOLUTION 90 DASH 2026, WHICH COUNSEL ADOPTED ON, UH, APRIL 20TH, NUMBER 10 DOES INDICATE THAT THE TOWNSHIP COUNCIL WOULD BE TAKING ACTION TO EITHER MAKE A FINDING OF REMOVAL WITH MUNICIPAL MANAGER OR VACATING RESOLUTION 76 20 26, BUT, AND NEED ONLY A MAKE MOTION TO EITHER AFFIRM THE FINDINGS OF RESOLUTION 76 DASH 2026, THE REMOVE MUNICIPAL MANAGER PURSUANT TO NJSA 40 69 A DASH 93 OR VACATE RESOLUTION 76 DASH 26. SO IT WAS CONTEMPLATED JUST FOR THE RECORD, THAT, THAT THIS THEIR ACTION. ANOTHER CONCERN I WAS THAT WHEN PEOPLE AND I TAUGHT SCHOOL FOR A LONG TIME, WHEN SOMEONE IS FAILING OR NOT DOING WELL, IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE PEOPLE IN CHARGE TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT PERSON IS ABLE TO IMPROVE. IT SHOULDN'T BE WHILE YOU'RE GONE. AND, AND THAT'S HOW MOST BUSINESSES ARE RUN. SO MM-HMM . ANYTHING ELSE IS JUST WRONG. JUST SO I UNDERSTAND, WHAT, WHAT ARE THE, SO YOU HAD STATED THAT THERE'S TWO PATHS WHICH YOU JUST HANDED TO US. I I BELIEVE THERE'S A QUESTION OF A THIRD PATH WHERE NO RESOLUTION IS ADOPTED THIS EVENING. THE COUNSEL DOES HAVE TO ACT THIS EVENING. THE HEARING IS TONIGHT. UM, IT, YOU ARE REQUIRED TO TAKE ACTION NO LATER THAN 30 DAYS AFTER THE HEARING REQUEST WAS MADE, WHICH WAS APRIL 2ND. SO WE WOULD HAVE TO TAKE ACTION BY MAY 2ND. THE NEXT SCHEDULED MEETING IS NOT UNTIL MAY 5TH. AND IT HAS TO BE PUBLIC. IT HAS TO BE PUBLIC. YOU'RE WELCOME TO TAKE AS MUCH TIME AS YOU NEED TO DELIBERATE. YOU DON'T HAVE TO MAKE THE DECISION THIS SECOND, BUT THIS IS WHERE WE ARE. AND, AND I KNOW I'M REPEATING PROBABLY FACTS AT THIS POINT THAT YOU'VE PROBABLY STATED, BUT JUST SO I HAVE IT VERY CLEAR HERE, ON MARCH 17TH, THIS BODY TOOK THE ACTION TO JUST GIMME THE PROPER WORDS, SUSPEND THIS BODY ON MAC, OR EXCUSE ME, MARCH TEENTH TOOK ACTION TO ADOPT A PRELIMINARY RESOLUTION FOR THE REMOVAL AND [01:10:01] IMMEDIATE SUSPENSION OF MR. OL. AND IT WASN'T UNANIMOUS AND IT WAS, THAT WAS UNANIMOUS. IT WAS EVIDENCE. YES. YES. YEAH. AND TOOK ACTION AND MEMORIALIZED THE REASONING WHICH ARE SET FORTH. OKAY. ON NUMBERS ONE THROUGH, I APOLOGIZE. I GAVE MR. NER 11, I BELIEVE 'CAUSE THE NUMBERS YOU POSTED HERE, AND DUE TO THE PROCESS BY WHICH A SUSPENSION AND EITHER POSSIBLE REINSTATEMENT OR TERMINATION TAKE PLACE, THAT WE'VE REACHED THIS POINT AS AT THE REQUEST OF MR. NIKKO FOR A PUBLIC HEARING. THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE THIS EVENING. CORRECT? CORRECT. UM, NATURALLY IN THE EVENT THE COUNSEL'S INCLINED TO ADOPT THE RESOLUTION FOR REMOVAL AND MAKE A MOTION AND A SECOND, AND THAT MOTION FAILS, THEN BY OPERATION OF LAW, MR. HORNICK WILL BE REINSTATED. YOU DO REQUIRE A MAJORITY TO PASS THE RESOLUTION. SO I GUESS I WOULD ASK YOU WHY YOU WOULD, WHY ARE YOU WHISPERING? I CAN TALK LOUDER. UM, I WOULD ASK YOU WHY YOU'RE QUESTIONING THIS BECAUSE WHEN I SPOKE WITH YOU LAST WEEK, WE SPOKE ABOUT THE DIFFERENT REASONS WE FELT THAT HE SHOULD BE LET GO. AND YOU SAID, THOSE ARE MY THOUGHTS. HE'S GOT YEAH, BUT I DIDN'T THINK THERE WERE THOUGHTS TO LET SOMEONE GO. I SAID THEY WERE MY THOUGHTS. THERE ARE PROBLEMS. WE, HE DIDN'T, MY PICTURE ISN'T OUT FRONT. THERE'S PROBLEMS HERE, BUT I DON'T LIKE THE WAY IT WAS DONE. AND THAT'S ALL. THERE'S PROBLEMS EVERYWHERE, AND I REALLY DON'T KNOW THE MAN LONG ENOUGH. WE'VE HAD VERY LITTLE TIME TO TALK OR SEE ANYTHING HE'S DONE. BUT I DON'T LIKE THE WAY THIS WAS RUSHED THROUGH. AND I'M NOT SURE WE WON'T BE PAYING DOUBLE SALARIES. CAN YOU GUARANTEE ME THAT WE'RE NOT LIKE WE'RE PAYING SOMEONE AND THEN STILL PAYING MR. HORAL IN THE EVENT THE TOWNSHIP COUNCIL VOTED TO REMOVE MR. HORAL UNDER THE STATUTE, YOU ARE REQUIRED TO PAY MR. HOALS SALARY FOR THREE MONTHS. CASE IN POINT. AND WHEN HE WOULDN'T BE WORKING. I'M SORRY, I HOPE EVERYBODY COULD HEAR ME, BUT HE WOULDN'T BE WORKING DURING THE JOB. I APOLOGIZE. I I'M NOT EXACTLY FOLLOWING, UM, ON, ARE WE ABLE TO DISCUSS MATTERS DISCUSSED IN EXECUTIVE HERE OR NO? NO. NO. OKAY. EVERYTHING HAS TO BE DISCUSSED ON THE DICE. UH, I'M SORRY. PREVIOUS EXECUTIVE SESSIONS? NO. OKAY. NO, YOU CAN'T DISCLOSE WHAT DISCUSSED WHAT WAS DISCUSSED IN EXECUTIVE. YEAH. UH, YOU CAN DISCUSS YOUR DELIBERATION IF YOU'RE IN FAVOR OF THE REMOVAL OR IF YOU'RE IN FAVOR OF REINSTATEMENT. YEAH. UM, IF YOU AGREE THAT THE REMOVAL ALLEGATIONS SHOULD BE REVISED, UM, THAT THAT IS THE SUBJECT. WELL, ANYTHING THAT WAS DISCUSSED IN EXECUTIVE IS STILL UNDER THAT PRIVILEGE. YEAH. SO YOUR HANDS ARE SOMEWHAT TIED AS TO THAT, THOSE ISSUES. AND I BELIEVE EVEN THE, I FORGIVE ME, AT LEAST A MAJORITY OF THE EIGHT FOLKS THAT SPOKE TODAY MENTIONED IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S A PERSONNEL MATTER. IT'S A SENSITIVE ISSUE. THERE'S CONFIDENTIAL THINGS THAT ARE, THAT WE CAN'T DISCUSS. UM, THAT'S WHY THERE'S SOME VAGUENESS TO, TO THE, TO THE MATTER. UM, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO, I I'M NOT, YOU KNOW, THIS ISN'T A, I DUNNO HOW TO SPEAK ABOUT EXECUTIVE MATTERS WITHOUT SPEAKING ABOUT THEM. BUT, UM, I WILL JUST STATE THAT I FEEL THROUGH THE CONVERSATIONS THAT WE HAD LEADING UP TO AND INCLUDING MAY SEVEN, EXCUSE ME, MARCH 17TH, UM, THE MEMBERS OF THE GOVERNING BODY DID HAVE THESE CONVERSATIONS. AND, UM, CLEARLY BECAUSE WE VOTED ON RESOLUTION 76, 20 26 UNANIMOUSLY, UM, WE FELT THESE MATTERS WERE SUFFICIENT ENOUGH AT THAT POINT TO SUSPEND MR. NIKAL KNOWING THAT THERE WAS THE OPPORTUNITY FOR DUE PROCESS MM-HMM . OR FOR WHATEVER THE TERMINOLOGY IS. UM, AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE THIS EVENING. AND, UM, SO I, I'M VERY COMFORTABLE GETTING TO THIS POINT AND I APPRECIATE ALL THE PUBLIC COMMENT AND I HOPE THEY CAN APPRECIATE THAT THESE THINGS ARE VERY SENSITIVE. 'CAUSE THEY DO, UM, HAVE CONFIDENTIAL MATTERS TIED TO THEM. BUT, UM, I, I'LL JUST, I'M JUST STATING, I GUESS, STATING FOR THE PUBLIC THAT, UM, THE REASONS NEEDED TO STATE FOR SUSPENSION AND POTENTIAL TERMINATION WERE, WERE DISCUSSED. SO I FEEL CONFIDENT IN, UM, THE LIST AND, UM, THE RESOLUTION AS STATED. [01:15:01] YEAH. I HAVE TO AGREE WITH YOU. UM, MAYOR, AND ON THAT NOTE, I'M GONNA ASK THAT WE PASS THE FINAL RESOLUTION OF REMOVAL OF THE TOWNSHIP MANAGER PURSUANT TO NJSA 40 69 A DASH 93, AND AFFIRMING THE REASONING SET FORTH IN RESOLUTION 76 DASH 2026. IS THAT YOUR MOTION? THAT IS MY MOTION. THERE'S A MOTION ON THE FLOOR. IS THERE A SECOND? I WILL SECOND ROLL CALL MS. PEPPER, MS. SMORE. YEAH. I DON'T LIKE THE WAY I ALWAYS GET CALLED FIRST TOO, BUT THAT'S ANOTHER STORY. I VOTE THAT HE ISN'T REMOVED. THAT HE REMAINS. SO YOU, SO YOU VOTE, SO YOU VOTE NO. NO. OKAY. I JUST DIDN'T HAVE MY OPINION. MR. COBB? NO. YES. MS. MILL. YES. DEPUTY MAYOR GIE? YES. AYE. AND MAYOR SCISSOR. AYE. MR. CLE, THANK YOU. I WISH YOU THE BEST OF LUCK IN YOUR FUTURE ENDEAVORS. MR. MAYOR MAY JUST GIVE A COUPLE MINUTES JUST FOR THE PUBLIC, FOR THE PEOPLE TO CLEAR OUT MOTION TO ADJOURN. WELL, WE DO, JUST FOR EVERYBODY IN THE PUBLIC. ONE SECOND. SURE. EXCUSE ME. EVERYBODY IN THE PUBLIC. SO WE DO HAVE TO OPEN THIS HEARING UP TO HAVE GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENT, UM, JUST AS A FORMALITY. BUT THEN IMMEDIATELY AFTER THIS, WE ARE GOING TO OPEN UP THE NEXT COUNCIL MEETING, WHICH IS GOING TO HAVE ITS OWN SEPARATE PUBLIC COMMENT AS WELL. AND ANYTHING CAN BE DISCUSSED, INCLUDING EVERYTHING THAT WAS DONE TODAY. UM, SO JUST AS A FORMALITY, CAN WE JUST OPEN IT UP TO THE PUBLIC? IF ANYBODY IS WILLING TO HOLD OFF ON THEIR COMMENTS UNTIL THE SECOND HE, THE SECOND PUBLIC COMMENT IN 40 MINUTES. UM, THAT WOULD JUST STREAMLINE THINGS. IF NOT, WE CAN'T STOP THEM. SURE. BUT THEY ARE LIMITED TO FIVE MINUTES. YEAH, NOT A PROBLEM. OKAY. AT THIS TIME, I'D LIKE [V. PUBLIC COMMENT ] TO OPEN THE MEETING TO THE PUBLIC COMMENT SECTION. IF ANYONE LIKE TO SPEAK, PLEASE COME TO THE MICROPHONE. YOU'LL HAVE FIVE MINUTES. STATE YOUR NAME. UM, MR. DOY, IF YOU CAN KEEP TRACK OF THE TIME. JASON, I'M SORRY. NO, NO, NO. PUBLIC HEARING, PUBLIC COMMENT DURING THE PUBLIC HEARING AND THAT WE, WE HAVE TO HAVE TWO PUBLIC, SO THAT WAS THE PUBLIC HEARING COMMENT. OH. SO THAT WAS STRICTLY LIMITED. THIS IS PUBLIC COMMENT ABOUT ANYTHING INCLUDING THE ACORN THAT FELL ON MAIN STREET YESTERDAY. AH, YEAH. SO IT'S JUST BECAUSE IT IS A PUBLIC HEARING, WE HAVE TO ALWAYS ALLOT OF TIME FOR IT. GOTCHA. OKAY. SO PUBLIC COMMENT SECTION. MR. KLEIN, WOULD YOU LIKE TO SPEAK? OKAY, SURE. WHY NOT? HELLO? I JUST, I'LL STATE MY NAME. JASON, YOU SAID THE STATE JUST NORMAL. THIS IS NORMAL. OKAY. SPELLED OR ANYTHING? ALL JASON KLEIMAN ME AGAIN. UM, LISTEN, UH, REGARDLESS OF YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT MR. NIKAL, I THOUGHT HE GAVE YOU GUYS A, A PRETTY GOOD OFF RAMP. UM, YOU KNOW, WITH HIS PROPOSED RESOLUTION, IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE GONNA PAY HIM FOR THREE MONTHS ANYWAY, EVEN IF YOU REMOVE HIM. AND THAT'S ALL HE ASKED FOR. SO I, I, I DON'T REALLY SEE, YOU KNOW, WHY YOU KIND OF HAD TO KICK HIM WHILE HE IS DOWN. YOU ALREADY REMOVED HIM, YOU'RE ALREADY PAYING HIM. SO WHY NOT JUST AT LEAST GIVE HIM HIS NAME BACK AND LISTEN, I HAD MY ISSUES WITH HIM TOO, BUT THAT JUST SEEMS INSULTING AND THAT'S REALLY ALL I HAD TO SAY. THANK YOU. OKAY. ANYONE ELSE, SIR? I, I JUST WANNA SECOND THOSE COMMENTS. I'M SORRY. MY NAME IS AL FINKELSTEIN. I SPOKE EARLIER. YEP. BUT, UM, I JUST WANNA SECOND THOSE EARLIER COMMENTS THAT THE GENTLEMAN JUST SPOKE. UM, MR. HORNICK PROVIDED A RESOLUTION FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION AND I THOUGHT IT WAS A VERY REASONABLE CONSIDERATION. I DON'T KNOW, WAS THAT, WAS THAT OFFERED TO THE COUNCIL TO, TO VOTE ON OR PART OF THEIR CONSIDERATION? THEY WERE GIVEN THE LEGAL PROBLEM, MAYOR AND PUBLIC WITH THAT RESOLUTION MM-HMM . IS IT WANTED TO CONSIDER AN ACT THAT DIDN'T EXIST AT THE TIME THE INITIAL RESOLUTION FOR TERMINATION WAS ADOPTED. IT'S THIS PUBLIC HEARING WAS FOR THOSE CONSIDERATIONS. YEAH. YEAH. IT SEEMS LIKE A TECHNICALITY. AND I, AND I, AND I HAVE TO SAY THAT, UM, I THOUGHT THAT WAS A VERY REASONABLE RESOLUTION THAT YOU PROVIDED. IT WAS A VERY EASY WAY FOR COUNSEL TO, TO, UH, MAKE A DECISION AND MOVE FORWARD WITH THE DECISION THAT YOU'VE CLEARLY ALREADY MADE WITH, WITH LESS RE REPERCUSSIONS. THAT'S ALL S-I-N-G-H 5 59 MCKEN ROAD. I MEAN, IT JUST, EVERY TIME I COME HERE, YOU KNOW, UH, YOU GUYS PROVE ME WRONG. I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU SAID YOU CANNOT DISCUSS WHAT WAS, WHAT HAPPENED IN THE EXECUTIVE SESSION. I UNDERSTAND. BUT WHATEVER HAPPENED IN THE EXEC EXECUTIVE [01:20:01] SESSION HAS TO AGREE WITH GENERAL PUBLIC. YOU KNOW, WE ELECTED YOU PEOPLE, WE PUT YOU THERE TO WORK IN OUR BEST INTEREST. EVERYTHING YOU HEARD IN THIS ROOM TODAY WAS NOT REALLY TELLING YOU THAT. YOU KNOW, YOU SHOULD REALLY KEEP MR. HORAL FOR THE ENTIRE TERM SAYING DON'T PAY TWO SALARIES, YOUR BUDGET CRISIS FOR GOD'S SAKE. YOU KNOW, WHY WOULD YOU PAY TWO PEOPLE? AND YOU'VE ALREADY DECIDED ON THE REPLACEMENT. AND THE REPLACEMENT IS SOMEONE WHO HAS SO MANY FAILED ATTEMPTS IN MEDFORD, POLITICALLY. I MEAN, HOW IS, HOW, HOW DOES THAT LOOK FOR OUR TOWN? THAT DOES NOT LOOK GOOD FOR OUR TOWN. THIS IS WHY I THINK MORE OF YOU WILL BE REPLACED. YOU KNOW, DEPUTY MAYOR WARES, YOU'VE BEEN DOING GOOD JOB ON REPORTING ABOUT THE HOUSING ISSUE HERE. YOU AND MAYOR, UH, MAYOR CIZIK, YOU KNOW, I SAW YOUR HESITATION ABOUT EXECUTIVE SESSIONS, BUT YOU STILL WENT AHEAD WITH THAT RESOLUTIONS. I JUST FEEL YOU HAVE STRINGS ELSEWHERE. BECAUSE EVEN IF YOU DISAGREE, YOU JUST SEEM, YOU CAN'T SEEM TO MAKE YOUR OWN DECISIONS. MS. MILK. YOU JUST FOLLOW THESE TWO. AND WHAT RAY ASKED FOR HERE, MR. UH, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, COUNCILMAN COX, SORRY, UH, WHAT HE ASKED FOR IS SOME TIME TO REVIEW A RESOLUTION. I DON'T KNOW, IN ANY GOVERNMENT, ESPECIALLY A MUNICIPAL OR IN A PUBLIC PLACE WHERE YOU ARE NOT GI GIVEN ENOUGH TIME AS A DECISION MAKER TO REVIEW THE RESOLUTION IN FRONT OF YOU. YOU KNOW, THERE SHOULD BE SPACE AND PLACE FOR THAT. YOU SHOULD GIVE THEM TIME TO DO THAT. YOU ARE REMOVING SOMEBODY WHO SERVED THE TOWN. SO THERE SHOULD BE PLENTY OF TIME TO LOOK AT WHY ARE WE DOING THIS? AND THIS DOES NOT. AGAIN, LIKE I SAID, I I, I WAS HOPING, I GUESS FOR A MIRACLE, BUT WHAT HAPPENS EVERY TIME HAPPENED AGAIN, YOU KNOW, IT USED TO HAPPEN WITH FIVE OF YOU SITTING THERE. NOW IT'S HAPPENING WITH THREE OF YOU. YOU DON'T, YOUR STRINGS ARE ELSEWHERE. YOU DON'T WANT TO MAKE A DECISION. WE CAN SEE FROM YOUR FACES THAT YOU ARE FORCED TO MAKE A DECISION THAT YOU DON'T WANT TO MAKE. WELL THEN WHY CAN'T WE DISCUSS ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IN THE EXECUTIVE SESSION? YOU CAN SAY NO BECAUSE THAT'S A LEGALITY, YOU KNOW? I KNOW. BUT AGAIN, YOU HAVE ROOM FULL OF PEOPLE COMING UP AND SAYING, GUYS, GIVE THIS TIME. WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND, AS SOMEONE WHO ELECTED YOU, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO PAY TWO SALARIES? I MEAN, WE'RE A MESS. AS A TOWN, WHEN I'VE ASKED BUDGET QUESTIONS, I'VE ASKED FINANCIAL STATEMENT QUESTIONS. YOU KNOW, I, I DON'T GET A LOT OF ANSWERS. OH, WE HAVE, WE HAVE MONEY ISSUES. WE HAVE THESE ISSUES ON TOP OF THAT, YOU JUST CREATED ANOTHER ISSUE. NOW WE WILL BE PAYING TWO PEOPLE. HOW IS THAT SOLVING OUR BUDGET ISSUES IS WHAT I WANT TO KNOW. YOU ARE CREATING MORE BUDGET ISSUES. NOW, I'LL SAY ANOTHER THING. IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW MUNICIPAL BUDGETS OR SHOULD WORK OR HOW YOU SHOULD CONTROL IT, MAYBE YOU SHOULDN'T BE IN THOSE SEATS. YOU KNOW, I'M BEING VERY HONEST. DO A JOB THAT YOU FEEL YOU CAN DO JUST BECAUSE YOU WANT THE POWER, YOU KNOW, TO SIT THERE AND FEEL IMPORTANT AND THEN FIRE PEOPLE AS YOU WISH AND NOT LISTEN TO YOUR TOWN. THAT'S, THAT'S COMPLETE DISREGARD FOR THE PEOPLE WHO PUT YOU UP THERE. NOW, YOU KNOW, MISS MILK, I'VE NEVER SEEN YOUR OPINION. THOSE TWO MAKE A DECISION. YOU FOLLOW ALONG. YOU ARE, YOU ARE ONE OF THE COUNCIL PEOPLE REELECTED. I BELIEVE I VOTE FIRST BEFORE THEM. SO SHE DID. YEAH. SO WHAT, WHAT, WHAT, WHAT AGAIN, SHE'S A VERY STRONG DON'T DO THIS TO HER. DON'T YOU KNOW COUNCILWOMAN? LISTEN. CAN I TALK? CAN I TALK? CAN I FINISH? SEE HOW YOU FEEL, HOW YOU FEEL DISRESPECTED. HANG ONE MINUTE. JUST SO, OKAY. WE FEEL DISRESPECTED THE SAME WAY YOU JUST FELT. WHAT WE ALL FEEL SITTING IN THIS ROOM COMPLETELY IGNORED, DISRESPECTED, NO REGARD FOR, YOU KNOW, THE TAXES WE'RE PAYING. WE ARE FUNDING THIS BUDGET. AND LOOK HOW EASILY BOTH OF YOU REACTED. NO ONE CARES ABOUT OUR REACTIONS HERE. YOU JUST COMPLETELY BULLDOZED WHAT WE SAID. THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY. THANK YOU. I'M GONNA GO WITH YOU FIRST. YES. OKAY. OKAY. UH, MISSING. MAY I RESPOND TO YOUR COMMENTS? SURE, PLEASE. OKAY. THANK YOU. UM, I BELIEVE WHAT YOU WERE REFERRING TO WHEN YOU STATED THAT I SHOWED SOME LEVEL OF HESITATION WAS I WAS CONFERRING WITH OUR LEGAL COUNSEL. IF I'M ABLE TO DIVULGE MATTERS THAT WE ALL DISCUSSED, THE FIVE OF US DISCUSSED IN EXECUTIVE SESSION. 'CAUSE I THINK THAT THOSE WOULD ENLIGHTEN THE PUBLIC BASED OFF YOUR COMMENTS. MM-HMM . WE'RE NOT AND WE'RE NOT ABLE TO DO. SO. THAT'S THE, THE CHALLENGE OF, I I'M ROLLING MY EYES TOO, MA'AM. BELIEVE ME. I WANT TO BE ABLE TO DISCUSS THESE THINGS. BUT THEY WERE DISCUSSED IN EXECUTIVE, WELL, WE SHOULD HAVE HAD A TOWN HALL FOR THIS THEN WHERE WE CAN DISCUSS, WHERE [01:25:01] YOU CAN TALK TO US. IT'S A CONFIDENTIAL MATTER FOR PERSONNEL. WHAT'S COMMON OUT ? I MEAN, EITHER SEXUAL HARASSMENT ABOUT ANCE. RIGHT? RIGHT. STEALING MONEY. BUT HE ASKED FOR THE PUBLIC, JUST MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC. IF YOU'RE GONNA TALK AT THE MICROPHONE, SO PLEASE, AND PLEASE. OKAY. SO I'M, I'M GOING YES, PLEASE RESPOND WHEN I CAN TALK BACK. PLEASE DON'T. YOU CAN COME RIGHT BACK TO THE MICROPHONE. IT'S STILL YOUR TIME. OKAY. YEAH. WE'LL DO THIS. YEAH. WE'RE GONNA GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THIS. YES, PLEASE. GO AHEAD. SO WE STRUGGLE AS COUNSEL TO BE ABLE TO PROVIDE CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION TO THE PUBLIC BECAUSE IT'S CONFIDENTIAL. HOW CAN WE POSSIBLY TELL YOU WHAT'S GOING ON ON AN, ON AN EMPLOYEE PERSONNEL MATTER THAT THAT'S, IT'S CONFIDENTIAL. THAT'S FINE. THAT'S FINE. SO WE, THERE'S NO WAY WE CAN HAVE A TOWN HALL MEETING ABOUT CONFIDENTIAL MATTERS. WHY WOULDN'T YOU GIVE EVERY COUNCIL MEMBER HERE TIME TO REVIEW A RESOLUTION AND JUST MAKE A DECISION WHEN THEY'RE CLEARLY ASKING YOU FOR TIME? THEY, HE'S LOOKED AT IT FOR THE FIRST TIME. WE ALL ARE. AND I'VE, AND I ASKED, WHAT IS THIS? WHAT IS THE, WHAT ARE THE CIRCUMSTANCES? WELL THEN WE NEED TO, THESE ARE THE CIRCUMSTANCES. WE NEED TO CHANGE SOMETHING HERE, ISN'T IT? WELL, THESE ARE THE CIRCUMSTANCES THAT WE KNEW WE WERE VOTING FOR ON MARCH 17TH. WE KNEW THAT WE WERE VOTING TO SUSPEND WITH THE OPPORTUNITY FOR A PUBLIC HEARING OR ANY HEARING, PUBLIC OR PRIVATE. MR. HORWELL CHOSE PUBLIC THEN WHY HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING WHEN YOU REALLY DON'T CARE WHAT WE HAVE TO SAY? WHAT DIFFERENCE DID THAT MAKE? A QUESTION, THE RESOLUTION TO, TO WHAT RAY WAS SAYING. I'M JUST, IT'S JUST A QUESTION. SURE. HE SAWED FOR THE FIRST TIME. IS THAT RIGHT RAY? YEAH. YEAH. SOMEBODY MUST HAVE SEEN IT BEFORE. 'CAUSE IT'S TYPED UP. I TYPED IT. OKAY. BUT NOBODY ON THIS, NOBODY ON THIS COUNCIL SAW IT. OKAY. SO NOBODY CAN READ, READ A RESOLUTION BEFORE IT'S PRESENTED, AND THEY JUST HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION ON IT. NOT WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH THE PUBLIC HEARING FOR THE TERMINATION OF THE MANAGER. BECAUSE THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO MAKE THEIR DECISION UP THERE FOR THE FIRST TIME. UNTAINTED AFTER REVIEWING ALL THE EVIDENCE. NOW THAT RESOLUTION, IF I, I'D BE HAPPY TO GIVE YOU, IF ANYBODY WOULD LIKE TO GIVE A COPY, YOU CAN HAVE MY COPY IF YOU'D LIKE IT. AND THAT RESOLUTION VERBATIM JUST SPELLS OUT THE PROCEDURAL HISTORY THAT ON MARCH 17TH, 2026, THE INITIAL PRELIMINARY RESOLUTION, UH, FOR, FOR REMOVAL AND SUSPENSION WAS ADOPTED THEREAFTER ON, I BELIEVE IT WAS APRIL 17TH. APRIL 17TH, RESOLUTION, NO, EXCUSE ME. ON APRIL 2ND, 2026, DID MR. HORAL REQUESTED A PUBLIC HEARING PURSUANT TO THE STATUTE, THE PUBLIC HEARING HAS TO BE CONDUCTED NO EARLIER THAN 20 DAYS AFTER THE REQUEST, BUT NO LATER THAN 30. SO THIS HEARING WAS REQUIRED BY LAW TO BE CONDUCTED BETWEEN THE WINDOW OF APRIL 22ND AND, AND MAY 2ND. OKAY. THAT'S AGREED WITH YOU. JUST LEMME FINISH. NO, NO, NO. I, I GET IT THEREAFTER. I DON'T WANNA, I DON'T WANNA HEAR THE LAW, BUT I GET IT. NO, NO, BUT THAT, NO, THIS IS JUST WHAT EVERYBODY FOR THE PUBLIC. SO THEN THEREAFTER, THE RESOLUTION MIMICS THE FINDINGS OF MARCH 17TH, RESOLUTION 76 DASH 26. THAT'S BASICALLY A COPY AND PASTE. HERE ARE THE ALLEGATIONS, THE PROCEEDING PARAGRAPH SAYS THEY EITHER AFFIRM THESE FINDINGS AND WANT TO PERMANENTLY REMOVE, OR ALTERNATIVELY, IT SAYS, WE, WE HEREBY VACATE RESOLUTION 76 AND REINSTATE. THERE'S NOTHING IN THERE OF ANY SUBSTANTIVE VALUE THAT WASN'T ALREADY IN THE RECORD. SO LET ME ASK YOU ANOTHER QUESTION NOW, SINCE YOU'RE SAYING THAT. SO IF YOU REMOVE HIM, DO YOU HAVE TO APPOINT SOMEONE RIGHT AWAY? NO. SO, I'M SORRY, MAY, SO WHEN WE SUSPENDED MR. HORAL BACK ON MARCH 17TH TO EVERYONE SHOCK, INCLUDING MR. DOY, WE, WE, WE PUT MR. DOY IN AS ACTING MANAGER. THAT IS WHERE WE ARE CURRENTLY AT MM-HMM . THAT MR. DOY IS THE ACTING MANAGER. AND SO, BUT WE HAVE NOT MADE A DECISION TO BRING ANYONE ELSE YET. OR HAVE WE AS ACCOUNT, WE HAVE, WE HAVE ADMINISTRATIVE SUPPORT THROUGH A SHARED SERVICE. AND WHO, WHY, HOW DID WE MAKE THAT DECISION? WE'VE DISCUSSED THAT FOR PREVIOUS WITH WHO? WITH WHO? LAST MEETING, LAST MEETING. SO, UM, AND WHEN THE TIME COMES FOR A MANAGER, WE WILL ASK FOR RESUMES. WE WILL ASK FOR THAT. WE WILL DO INTERVIEWS. AND MR. UMBA IS NOT LEAVING SOUTH HAMPTON FOR MEDFORD. IT'S A SHARED SERVICE. THE MAYOR CAME. YOU MAY NOT, BUT THERE, THERE'S THE CONFLICT. I'M GONNA ANSWER YOUR QUESTION. YOU MAY NOT HAVE HEARD LAST WEEK'S PRESENTATION WHERE THE MAYOR CAME TO OUR MAYOR AND OFFERED A SHARED SERVICE. AND HE IS NOT THE MANAGER. THERE'S OTHER, THERE WERE OTHER TOWNS. AND, AND I DO WANT TO ANSWER THE FINANCIAL QUESTION HERE BECAUSE IT, IT, IT APPEARS AS THOUGH, AND WE ARE IN A BUDGET CRISIS SITUATION, RIGHT? THE, THE COST OF, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE I'M USING THE RIGHT WORDS HERE. SUSPENDING, TERMINATING A MANAGER UNDER STATUTE, THAT PERSON IS LEGALLY ENTITLED TO THREE MONTHS SEVERANCE. CORRECT? CORRECT. OKAY. SO WE ALL KNEW THAT. CORRECT. WE ALL KNEW THAT WHEN WE ADOPTED THE RESOLUTION [01:30:01] ON MARCH 17TH, WE UNDERSTOOD THAT TO NOT INCUR ADDITIONAL COSTS, THAT WE HAD A VERY SMALL WINDOW TO WORK WITH TO PROVIDE SUPPORT TO MR. DOVEY. RIGHT. SO WHEN THE THREE TOWNS CAME TO US, TWO WERE WAY OUTTA WHACK. WE HAD PROFESSIONAL SERVICES THAT WERE PROVIDED TO US RIGHT ON THE PREVIOUS COUNCIL TO FIND A MANAGER. THOSE DIDN'T FIT INTO OUR BUDGET CONSTRAINTS. SO WE HAD ONE OPTION AND THAT OPTION WAS EXERCISED. SO THE OPTION TO BRING IN A SHARED SERVICE TO SUPPORT MR. DOVEY IN IT FROM AN ADMINISTRATIVE STANDPOINT, HAS NO ADDITIONAL FINANCIAL IMPACT TO US. SO IT'S SO YOU THINK THAT WAS OKAY FOR A CANDIDATE WHO WAS A POLITICAL CANDIDATE IN LAST ELECTION WITH 200 SIGNS ALL OVER MEDFORD CO OVER AND OVER AGAIN? FEW YEARS NOW I'VE SEEN, OKAY. TO AM HAVE THAT PERSON. AM I ADDING THE EXTRA MINUTE, EXTRA 10 MINUTES? I WANNA MAKE SURE SHE HAS BRIAN CAR'S CLOCK AT THIS POINT. OKAY. I I, I, I DIDN'T ASK TO BE HERE. NOW SOMEONE'S TALKING. BRIAN'S NOT HERE. WE GOT PLENTY OF TIME. SO, UM, SO YOU'VE BROUGHT UP THE POLITICAL QUESTION, CORRECT? AND THAT'S A VERY FAIR QUESTION FOR YOU TO ASK. YES. I JUST WANT YOU TO UNDERSTAND THAT MR. UMBA IS ALSO YOUR NEIGHBOR. HE'S OUR NEIGHBOR. HE'S A RESIDENT OF MEDFORD. I UNDERSTAND HE PROVIDES THESE SERVICES PROFESSIONALLY AND HE'S DONE THIS FOR HIS CAREER. I UNDERSTAND YOU AND OTHERS MAY NOT FEEL THAT AS THOUGH HE'S, FOR WHATEVER REASON, AND THEY COULD BE PERSONAL OR BASED OFF HIS WORK HISTORY, YOU FEEL HE MAY NOT BE THE RIGHT PERSON. THAT'S OKAY. WE CAN DISAGREE ON THAT. MR. UMBA IS BEING UTILIZED THROUGH A SHARED SERVICE WITH SOUTHAMPTON TO PROVIDE ADMINISTRATIVE SUPPORT TO MR. DOVEY. MR. DOVEY MAKES THE FINAL DECISION. MR. UMBA DOES NOT MAKE THE FINAL DECISION. OKAY? SO NOW HE AND I UNDERSTAND, I UNDERSTAND. I'M GONNA STOP YOU RIGHT THERE FOR ONE REASON, BECAUSE WE'RE GONNA GO BACK AND FORTH. I KNOW, BECAUSE ALL OF US HERE FEEL DIFFERENTLY AND YOU FEEL DIFFERENTLY, RIGHT? SURE. THERE'S A DISCONNECT. YOU MIGHT THINK HE'S A GOOD CANDIDATE, BUT MOST OF US IN THIS ROOM DON'T THINK THAT WE DID. OKAY. I'M SORRY. HE NEEDS HIS TIME BACK. NO, I'M JOKING. SO, AND AS WE STATED IN THE PREVIOUS MEETING, OUR ANY THIS SHARED SERVICE OR ANY SHARED SERVICE THAT WE ENGAGE IN, AND THAT WOULD GO BOTH WAYS. IF WE PROVIDE A SHARED SERVICE TO ANOTHER TOWN, THAT OTHER MUNICIPALITY HAS A 30 DAY OUT. IF WE FEEL THAT THIS IS, IF ADMINISTRATIVE SUPPORT TO MEDFORD AT THE COST STRUCTURE WE AGREED TO AND THE TERMS WE AGREED TO IS NOT WORKING FOR MEDFORD, WE CAN END THAT SHARED SERVICE IN 30 DAYS. AND AS DEPUTY MAYOR BO, HE STATED, WHEN WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO INTERVIEW FOR A FULL-TIME PERMANENT MUNICIPAL MANAGER, ALL THE THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN BROUGHT UP AT THIS MEETING AND THE LAST MEETING AND THE MEETING PRIOR, WE WILL GO THROUGH A FULL INTERVIEW PROCESS. BUT AT THIS POINT, AND I DON'T WANNA SPEAK FOR MR. DOBY MM-HMM . BUT, AND I THANK YOU, THANK GOD YOU'RE HERE. BUT HE IS STEPPING IN AND ACTING AS OUR MANAGER DURING THIS TIME THAT, WHILE STILL DOING THE JOB. I UNDERSTAND THAT. HERE'S WHAT I'M GONNA SAY. LOOK, YOU KNOW, ANY PROCEDURE, ANY PROCESS THAT ACTUALLY RESTRICTS THE PUBLIC IN A GOVERNMENT BODY EMBODY FROM, YOU KNOW, HELPING MAKE DECISIONS IS A DETRIMENT TO ANY TOWN. LET ME SAY THAT FIRST. SURE. TWO, IF COUNCIL MEMBERS SITTING THERE ARE SAYING, WE DIDN'T SEE THIS BEFORE, AND YOU ARE SAYING THIS IS THE LAW, MAYBE WE NEED TO AMEND THAT LAW. NO ONE ON COUNCIL SAW. I'M SORRY. SO EITHER OF THESE, THAT'S A PROBLEM THAT, THAT MR. VARGA JUST EXPLAINED TO US. I UNDERSTAND THAT. THAT'S THE PROCEDURAL WAY. THEN WE NEED TO, WE NEED TO REASSESS OUR PROCEDURES. IT IT'S, HE JUST STATED THAT, THAT IT WAS A COURT FINDING THAT THAT'S HOW THIS SHOULD BE CONDUCTED. MA'AM, I, I, I KNOW YOU MISSED IT. AND I'M SORRY, JUST FOR THE RECORD, MR. . I KNOW, I KNOW. I HEARD THE COURT CASE. I HEARD THE COURT CASE. OKAY. SO WE CAN'T DO IT A SPECIAL WAY HERE BEFORE I, I WILL TELL YOU THIS. LISTEN, MAYOR CIZIK, YES. I WILL TELL YOU THIS. THERE ARE 20 DIFFERENT WAYS TO DO ANYTHING. RIGHT? BEFORE YOU FIRE SOMEONE WHO YOU HIRE, YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE. YOU HAVE BUDGET ISSUES ALL OF A SUDDEN IN THE MIDST OF THAT, YES, WE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE, WITH THE, YOU KNOW, WITH AN EMPLOYEE OF THE TOWN THAT'S GOING TO ADD TO OUR BUDGET ISSUES. IT'S NOT, I MEAN, YOU THINK THAT THE NUMBERS ARE CLEAR. WELL, THE NUMBERS IN MEDFORD HAVE NOT BEEN CLEAR FOR, FOR QUITE SOME TIME. WELL, LET'S MAKE, I MEAN MEAN, I'M, I'M A NUMBERS PERSON AND I'VE LOOKED AT YOUR FINANCIAL, THERE'S NUMBERS HAVE NOT BEEN [01:35:01] PRETTY, THERE'S A, THERE'S A SHARED SERVICE AGREEMENT, . OKAY. AND THERE'S A, THERE'S A STATUTORY SEVERANCE PACKAGE OFFERED TO MR. HORAL AND THE NET COST OF MR. HORNIK'S EMPLOYMENT AND THE SHARED SERVICE IN THIS CALENDAR, YOUR BUDGET ARE A WASH. LET ME, LET ME, LET ME GIVE YOU SOME NEWS. YOUR FUND BALANCE HAS BEEN DWINDLING OVER THE YEARS. SURE. YOU KNOW THAT AND I KNOW THAT. YEAH, BECAUSE I HAVE, I HAVE GONE AS A-C-P-A-I GONE THROUGH THOSE FINANCIALS. YOUR FUND BALANCE IS DWINDLING. YES. THAT MEANS YOU ARE GOING DOWN AND FURTHER DOWN. YEAH. SO ANYTHING YOU DO IS DETRIMENT TO, YOU KNOW, YOU ARE SAYING THIS HAS NO IMPACT. THERE'S IMPACT, THERE'S IMPACT. MM-HMM . NOT JUST FROM THIS, FROM OTHER DECISIONS THAT COME WITH THIS. WE CAN TALK ABOUT THOSE AS WELL, BUT JUST WE HAVE NO, YOU'RE A CPA. I'M A GLORIFIED LINE COOK. I KNOW THERE'S BUDGET ISSUES. I VOTED EVERY YEAR TO INCREASE THE BUDGET. SO WE CAN TRY TO WORK OUR WAY OUT OF THESE PROBLEMS. AND WE'RE LOOKING AT RATEABLE OPTIONS. WE'RE LOOKING AT OTHER WAYS TO IMPROVE. YOU CAN'T INCREASE THE BUDGET IF YOU DON'T CONTROL THE EXPENSES. YOU ARE A MUNICIPAL GOVERNMENT. YOU ARE ON LIMITED AMOUNT. WE ARE GOING TO, WE'RE GOING TO AGREE THAT THE NUMBERS AREN'T GONNA LIE. RIGHT? CORRECT. YOU ARE A CPA. CORRECT? I CAN READ NUMBERS. YES. THE NET INCREASE IS ZERO TO MR. OL'S SALARY PLUS HIS SEVERANCE AND THE SHARED SERVICE THAT WE'RE PAYING FOR THROUGH SOUTHAMPTON. SO HOW MANY OTHER, OTHER DECISIONS ARE WE GOING TO MAKE BASED ON THE FACT THAT OUR NET INCREASE IS ZERO INSTEAD OF FOCUSING ON ISSUES LIKE THIS? WHY AREN'T WE FOCUSING ON SOMETHING THAT CAN MAKE US SOME MONEY AS A TALENT? WELL, GREAT QUESTION. YOU KNOW, WE ACTUALLY ARE ENTERING INTO SHARED SERVICES WHERE OUR EMPLOYEES ARE BEING SHARED WITH OTHER MUNICIPALITIES. AND WE'VE ALREADY WORKED OUT A TENTATIVE PLAN WHERE THE MUNICIPALITY MAKES MONEY WHILE THE EMPLOYEES CONTINUE TO MAKE MONEY AS WELL, PROVIDING THOSE SHARED SERVICES. SO WE'RE, LISTEN, MAYOR CIZIK, I WILL SEE WHEN IT TRANSLATES IN YOUR FINANCIAL STATEMENTS. GREAT. WE'VE SEEN GREAT STORIES IN TOWN COUNCIL MEETINGS. IT HAS NEVER TRANSLATED ON PAPER. I WILL BELIEVE WHEN I SEE THE NUMBERS AGAIN, I'M A NUMBERS PERSON UNTIL THE STORY SHOWS UP THERE, I DON'T BELIEVE A WORD. OKAY. PEOPLE CAN TELL ME, I HAVE A MILLION DOLLARS. I'M GONNA SHOW ME, SHOW ME, SHOW ME THE, SHOW ME THE CASH. I'LL BELIEVE YOU. I HAVEN'T SEEN THAT YET. COMING BACK TO THE MAIN POINT, LOOK, JUST BEFORE YOU CONTINUE, ONLY BECAUSE WE ARE PUSHING SEVEN 10 AND WE'RE SUPPOSED TO START AND ONLY JUST, ALL RIGHT. JUST, I'M, I'M GONNA SIT DOWN. THERE'S ANOTHER PUBLIC COMMENT IN THE NEXT MEETING. WE JUST HAVE TO GET THROUGH SOME OF THOSE THINGS. UM, SO YOU, SHE WILL HAVE A, AN OPPORTUNITY TO CONTINUE TALKING. I LOOK FORWARD TO THE OTHER PUBLIC CONVERSATION. I TALK WHEN I'M HERE. I DO TALK. BUT AGAIN, PLEASE LISTEN TO THE TOWN THAT'S SPEAKING HERE. WE FEEL IGNORED. WE FEEL YOU MAKE THE DECISIONS YOU WANT TO MAKE. WE FEEL YOU ARE CONTROLLED. YOU SOMEONE ELSE HOLDS THE STRING. WE SEE THAT WE'RE GIVING YOU OUR DISAGREEMENTS. IT DOES NOT BOTHER YOU AT ALL. THAT MANY PEOPLE HERE ARE NOT HAPPY WITH MANY DECISIONS YOU'RE MAKING. SO, THANK YOU. THANK YOU AGAIN. JUST MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC WHO WAS NEXT. ALRIGHT. IS THERE, SO THIS IS END OF, SO THIS IS THE PUBLIC COMMENT SECTION OF THE HEARING THAT STARTED AT FIVE 30. OKAY. YEAH. SO ALL THIS IS IN REFERENCE TO THE HEARING. NOW THIS COULD BE ABOUT KO'S ON MAIN STREET. THAT'S WHAT I WAS MISSING. THANK YOU FOR THAT CLARIFICATION. SO THERE IS A SECOND PUDDLE OF COMMENT, BUT WE JUST CAN'T, WE HAVE TO START NEXT MEETING FIRST. SO THIS IS STILL THE HEARING, RIGHT? NO, THIS IS ANYTHING, THIS IS PUBLIC COMMENT DURING THE HEARING, YOU CAN TALK ABOUT ANYTHING YOU WANT. OKAY. WELL, SO, UH, WELL I'LL STICK WITH WHAT WE JUST COVERED. SO WHAT WE'VE LEARNED HERE TONIGHT IS THAT YOU HAD A RESOLUTION WITH 10, 11 POINTS AS TO THE REASONS THAT YOU'RE FIRING MR. CLE. AND NONE OF THOSE WERE REALLY THE REASON OR THEY'RE PART, YOU KNOW, PART OF THE REASON, THE REAL REASON ARE THE CONFIDENTIAL STUFF THAT YOU LEARNED OR DISCUSSED IN EXECUTIVE SESSION. IS THAT, IS THAT CORRECT? THE, THE, THE DETAILS THAT WE CAN'T DISCUSS ABOUT THE REASONS WERE BROUGHT UP AN EXECUTIVE. THAT'S WHY I ASKED. COULD WE TALK ABOUT THAT? OKAY. SO IS THERE GONNA BE A A ANOTHER SHOE THAT DROPS WHEN SOMEBODY IN THE TOWNSHIP IS SUING THE TOWN? SO ANOTHER EMPLOYEE IS SUING THE TOWNSHIP BECAUSE MR. HARLE WAS DOING SOMETHING INAPPROPRIATE. HE WAS STEALING MONEY. HE WAS, YOU KNOW, THAT THERE'S SOMETHING OBVIOUSLY THAT YOU GUYS CAN'T TALK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE IT WASN'T COVERED IN CONFIDENTIAL SESSION. RESPECTFULLY WHERE YOU'RE GOING WITH THIS QUESTION. YOU JUST NAILED IT ON THE HEAD. THIS COUNCIL CANNOT TALK ABOUT THESE ANYTHING THAT IS CONSIDERED CONFIDENTIAL AND WITH PERSONNEL. OKAY. THE TIME FOR THE PUBLIC HEARING IS OVER. THIS IS THE PUBLIC COMMENT SECTION WHERE YOU CAN TALK ABOUT ANYTHING GOING ON IN THE TOWNSHIP OF MEDFORD. SO, OKAY. WELL JUST BE GUIDED BY THE, WELL, IT JUST SEEMS LIKE THERE IS GONNA BE A SHOE THAT DROPS BECAUSE THAT INFORMATION USUALLY DOES COME OUT, EVEN IF IT'S BEEN KEPT IN A CONFIDENTIAL SESSION, EXECUTIVE SESSION. [01:40:01] SO, UM, YEAH, IT CONCERNS ME THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU, YOU'VE, YOU'VE, YOU'VE HAD YOUR PUBLIC REASONS THAT YOU'VE, YOU'VE FIRED MR. HORAL, BUT THERE'S ACTUALLY MORE, YOU KNOW, BEHIND THE SCENES THAT'S, THAT'S GOING ON. YOU'RE SHAKING YOUR HEAD NOW. I'M JUST, I'VE HEADACHE. NOW YOUR, YOUR HEAD HURTS. THAT'S WHY YOU'RE TRYING TO SHAKE. I DON'T THINK ANOTHER SHOE'S GONNA DROP. I'M ALLOWED TO SAY THAT. OKAY. YEAH. OKAY. THANK YOU SIR. STATEMENT TO BANK, ZACH. I HATE THESE IDIOTS. UH, ZACH WILSON, 51 NORTH MAIN STREET. UM, SO YEAH, I MEAN I, I THINK THAT FOR REASONS THAT I PREVIOUSLY SAID DURING THE TESTIMONY OF THE HEARING, I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, WE MAY HAVE ACTED RASHLY. UM, AGAIN, I DON'T RELISH YOUR POSITION OF BEING IN THERE. UM, HOWEVER, I THINK THAT THERE ARE POINTS WITHIN THIS THAT WHILE YOU CAN'T, UM, SPEAK TO THE DETAILS, UM, RA RAISE PUBLIC CONCERN. THERE ARE, THERE ARE COMMENTS IN YOUR LIST THAT TALK ABOUT PUBLIC SAFETY. UM, AND THE FACT THAT YOU'RE UNABLE TO GIVE US DETAILS ON THAT MAKES ME WORRIED, UM, ABOUT WHAT MAY HAVE OCCURRED. ABOUT WHAT MA WHAT ASPECTS OF PUBLIC SAFETY WE AS THE, AS THE PUBLIC SHOULD BE CONCERNED ABOUT. UM, ALSO, YOU KNOW, NOTFOR, NOTHING MAYOR. I THINK THAT SEVERANCE PACKAGES ARE ALWAYS PART OF THE BUDGET. WRONGFUL TERMINATION SUITS ARE TYPICALLY NOT. UM, SO WHILE WE MAY NOT HAVE A BUDGETARY IMPACT FROM A SHARED SERVICES AGREEMENT, IF WE DID NOT FOLLOW THE LETTER OF THE LAW IN RELEASING MR. CLE, IF THERE IS ANY SUBSTANCE TO WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT THAT HE'S ABLE TO PROVE IN COURT, THAT WILL HAVE A NEGATIVE IMPACT ON US. UM, AND I, YOU KNOW, GIVEN THE SUDDENNESS OF HOW QUICKLY COUNSEL CAME TO MAKE THE DECISION ON MARCH 17TH TO TAKE THAT ACTION, UM, ONE WONDERS WHETHER SOME MORE, UH, INVESTIGATORY WORK BEFORE TAKING SUCH ACTION WOULD'VE BEEN WARRANTED. SO THAT AGAIN, YOU MITIGATE FURTHER ANY POSSIBILITIES OF WRONGFUL TERMINATION, UM, ESPECIALLY GIVEN THAT YOU WOULD'VE HAD A 30 DAY TIME PERIOD IN WHICH TO SCHEDULE THE HEARING, ET CETERA. UM, YOU KNOW, ONCE YOU TAKE THOSE ACTIONS, YOUR HANDS ARE TIED FROM A TIMING STANDPOINT. SO THAT'S WHEN YOU TAKE THAT ACTION TO SUSPEND OR TO FILE THE INITIAL THING THAT WE DID BACK ON MARCH 17TH, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT STARTS THE CLOCK. AND IF YOU DON'T HAVE ALL OF YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW, THEN YOU CAN HAVE A PROBLEM. SO I REALLY, AGAIN, I JUST HOPE THAT YOU DID HAVE THOSE DUCKS IN A ROW, BECAUSE IF YOU DIDN'T AND WE END UP HAVING TO PAY OUT OF A VERY LIMITED BUDGET AS WE'VE ALL BEEN TALKING ABOUT BECAUSE YOU SCREWED IT UP, THEN THAT ABSOLUTELY IS GOING TO BE REMEMBERED ON ELECTION DAY. AND IT'S NOT GONNA BE THE THINGS THAT YOU GUYS HAVE DONE REALLY WELL SINCE TAKING OFFICE. 'CAUSE YOU HAVE, AND I WANT TO EMPHASIZE THAT YOU'VE DONE SOME GREAT THINGS SINCE TAKING OFFICE. I KNOW YOU'RE TAKING A BUNCH OF CRAP UP HERE IN THE LAST COUPLE MONTHS, BUT YOU'VE DONE SOME GOOD THINGS SINCE TAKING OFFICE. THIS WILL BE YOUR LEGACY IF YOU SCREWED THAT UP. UM, SO I, I REALLY HOPE THAT YOU DIDN'T, AND THAT YOU TOOK THE RIGHT ACTION HERE. UM, OUTSIDE OF THAT, I, IT'D BE GREAT IF WE COULD GET BACK TO THE, UH, SUBCOMMITTEE FINDINGS AND, AND MAYBE GET MEDFORD OR GET MAIN STREET REPAVED AND AND LINE FOR PARKING. CAN I COMMENT ON THAT? CERTAINLY. YEAH. I MEAN, IN TERMS OF DOING ANYTHING IMPROPER, IN FAIRNESS, WE CERTAINLY HAVE NOT. YEAH. BUT, UM, AND I'M SORRY ZACH, I WOULD ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO GO BACK TO THE MARCH 17TH MEETING. UM, YOU REALLY ONLY HAVE TO GET THROUGH PROBABLY THE FIRST 20 MINUTES OF IT TO UNDERSTAND THAT MATTERS WERE DELIBERATED UPON, UM, UP TO AND INCLUDING THE MARCH 17TH MEETING. UM, SO AGAIN, AS A BODY, UH, DECISIONS WERE MADE AT THAT TIME. AND, UH, I, I'M PRETTY, I'M VERY CONFIDENT THAT THE CONVERSATIONS THAT WE HAD HAD IN EXECUTIVE, THAT WERE, THAT ARE UNFORTUNATELY CONFIDENTIAL, UM, DON'T PUT US AT ANY RISK. SO, BUT I, I, I'VE, EVERY, EVERY FIRING MANAGER FEELS THE SAME AND EVERY HR DEPARTMENT GUARANTEES THAT THE, THAT THEY'RE NOT AT AT RISK. SO THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT WRONGFUL TERMINATION SUITS DON'T SUCCEED ALL THE TIME. YEAH, CORRECT. SO IN RELATION TO YOUR, UH, COMMENTS BOTH HERE AND PREVIOUSLY ABOUT MAIN STREET SUBCOMMITTEE. OKAY, SO DON'T WANT TO, DON'T HOLD ME TO IT, BUT, UM, WE HAVE A APPROVED STRIPING PLAN FOR MAIN STREET. UM, THE, WHEN WE TALKED AT THE SUBCOMMITTEE, THERE WAS DISCUSSIONS ABOUT REPAVING MAIN STREET MM-HMM . AND AS YOU KNOW, YOU LIVE RIGHT THERE. UM, WHEN THEY WENT TO GO REPAVE MAIN STREET, IT WAS MORE, UM, IT WASN'T A COMPLETE JOB. YEAH, THEY DID DO REPAVING, BUT IT WAS NOT THE ENTIRETY OF THE ROAD. UM, THAT IS WHAT WE ARE PROVIDED AT THIS POINT [01:45:01] WITH NO PLAN TO DO ADDITIONAL REPAVING. SO STRIPING IS OUR NEXT STEP. UM, WE HAVE THE APPROVED STRIP. I DON'T WANT TO SPEAK FOR MR. NOEL, BUT I KNOW HE'S BEEN WORKING WITH THE COUNTY TO GET THE FINAL DELINEATION MADE. UM, MEMBERS OF THAT SUBCOMMITTEE WENT BACK OUT JUST TO MAKE SURE IT WAS, WHAT WAS IT? ME, YOU, ME, YOU GUYS, UM, ED AND, AND PAULA. PAULA. JUST TO TR I MEAN LIKE WE WALKED IT AGAIN, RIGHT? UM, WE ADDED IN THE CAR. CAN WE SEND HIM A COPY ? YEAH, IT'S, IT'S, I'M SURE IT'LL SEND IT TO ME. PROBABLY HAS IT IN MY EMAIL. YEAH, GET A COPY. YOU KNOW, LIKE WE WERE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT, THERE WAS A CURB CUT WITH A HANDICAP SPOT. UM, THERE WAS SOME LINE, WE TALKED ABOUT THE LINES THAT NOTATE BETWEEN A DRIVEWAY AND A PARKING SPOT. THE FIRE HYDRANT, THE FIRE HYDRANT WASN'T PROPER DELINEATED. WE ADDED THAT. AND UM, IF YOU'RE MAKING A RIGHT OFF OF, FORGIVE ME, BRANCH STREET ONTO NORTH MAIN, UM, IT'S VERY SHALLOW THERE AND WE ACTUALLY, UM, WE GOT A COUPLE ADDITIONAL SPOTS. WE ADDED A SPOT SOMEWHERE AND WE REMOVED A SPOT. SO YEAH, I MEAN IT WAS LIKE AS FINE TUNED AS WE COULD POSSIBLY GET. WE'RE NOW, I BELIEVE IT'S A RESOLUTION FOR THE ROAD PROGRAM, ISN'T IT, TO GO OUT TO BID ON THAT OR, UH, YEAH, 99% POSSIBLE. THERE'S, THERE'S DEFINITELY ACTIONS BEING TAKEN BY THIS COUNCIL TO APPROVE THAT PLAN AND, AND GET THE VENDOR TO KIND OF GET GOING ON THAT. UM, I HOPE THAT HELPS. YEAH, NO IT DOES. I APPRECIATE THE UPDATE. THANK YOU. YEAH, THANK YOU. THANKS GUYS. YEP. OKAY. UM, JUST TO BE FAIR, UM, YOU DID HAVE YOUR HAND UP FOR A LONG TIME. I DO WANNA GET TO YOU AND THEN I SAW TWO HANDS IN THE BACK. I'M SORRY IF I'M LOSING TRACK OF HANDS, BUT YOU READY? SORRY. STATE YOUR NAME, BAYLA FINKELSTEIN AND DO ADDRESS? NOPE, JUST DO ONE. OKAY. UM, HI. THIS IS MY FIRST TIME, UH, IN ANY WAY INTERACTING WITH LOCAL TOWNSHIP. UM, AND THIS PAST HOUR HAS DEFINITELY LEFT ME WITH A BAD FIRST IMPRESSION. UM, IT JUST FEELS LIKE THIS DECISION WAS RUSHED OR MAYBE NOT. UM, I FEEL AS THOUGH SOME OF THE OTHER CITIZENS' OPINIONS AND VOICES WERE NOT TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION AS MUCH AS I WISH THEY WERE. UM, AND IT ALSO FEELS AS THOUGH, I DON'T KNOW, LIKE JUST HEARING ABOUT THE BUDGET CUTS OR LIKE THE POSSIBLE BUDGET CUTS DEFINITELY ISN'T A GREAT THING TO HEAR THE FIRST TIME YOU'RE WALKING INTO A TOWN MEETING. UM, SO THAT'S BASICALLY ALL I HAD TO SAY. THIS IS, YEAH. OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. UM, BRIAN, I'M SO SORRY THAT THE YOUNG LADY BEHIND YOU HAD HER HAND UP. I CAN'T FOLLOW YOU ANYWAY. YEAH, WE CAN TALK ABOUT ANYTHING, RIGHT? ANYTHING. OKAY. I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT ALL THAT. YEAH. UH, HI, UH, AMY BZA, PINE BOULEVARD. UM, I KNOW THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF TALK ABOUT THE GARBAGE SITUATION IN TOWN. UM, THE WHAT? I'M SORRY. DO WE HAVE ANY GARBAGE? GARBAGE? THE GARBAGE, SORRY. THAT'S ALRIGHT. UH, I KNOW REPUBLIC IS NOT DOING HALF OF WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE DOING. LIKE ME PERSONALLY SUPPOSED TO GET PICKED UP ON FRIDAYS. IT WASN'T PICKED UP TILL THE FOLLOWING TUESDAY AND NOW IT'S FOLLOWING MONDAY. SO WE DON'T KNOW IF WE'RE GONNA GET PICKED UP AGAIN ON FRIDAY. AND IT JUST SEEMS LIKE THE WHOLE TOWN IS HALF GETTING PICKED UP AND, YOU KNOW, PARTLY GETTING PICKED UP OR WHATEVER. I MEAN, IS THERE ANY RECOURSE TO GET MONEY BACK FROM THEM BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT DOING THEIR JOB? YOU MEAN IF I WASN'T DOING MY JOB AT MY WORK, THERE WOULD BE CONSEQUENCES TO THAT. SO I DIDN'T KNOW LIKE WE'RE ALL TALKING BUDGET. IS THERE A WAY TO GET MONEY BACK FOR THAT OR, I KNOW THERE WAS TALK BEFORE ABOUT BRINGING IT BACK IN HOUSE 'CAUSE THAT'S BEEN, YOU KNOW, 20 YEARS THAT THAT WAS STOPPED. UM, I KNOW THAT COST MONEY TO GET TRUCKS AND TRAINING AND, AND ALL OF THAT. AND I KNOW IT WAS DISCUSSED MONTHS AGO AT ONE OF THE MEETINGS I WAS AT. UM, I JUST DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANY RECOURSE IF THERE'S OTHER COMPANIES WE CAN USE BESIDES REPUBLIC 'CAUSE THEY JUST DON'T REALLY SEEM TO CARE ABOUT. I WENT FOR A WALK THE OTHER DAY AND IT WAS, I HATE TO SAY IT WAS DISGUSTING EVERYWHERE I WALKED IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, YOU PASS THE HOUSE AND IT WAS WHEN IT WAS HOT AND IT JUST SMELLED AND THERE WERE FLIES AND IT WAS JUST DISGUSTING. SO I JUST WANTED TO BRING IT UP. I KNOW IT'S CHIEF HAS AN UPDATE FROM A FINANCIAL STANDPOINT IF YOU'D LIKE TO SHARE. YEAH. SO I WAS GONNA BRING IT UP, UH, MR. MAYOR AS PART OF OUR, UH, THE MANAGER'S REPORT. BUT, UM, UH, AS A RESIDENT AND THE ACTING MANAGER, I'M VERY WELL AWARE OF THIS, THE MISSED TRASH COLLECTION. SO WE'VE UH, DEMANDED A MEETING WITH REPUBLIC TO DISCUSS ALL OF THE RECENT ISSUES. UM, WE'RE ALSO SEEKING LI SEEKING LIQUIDATED DAMAGES IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE CONTRACT THAT WE HAVE WITH REPUBLIC. AND LAST TIME WE WENT OUT TO TO BID FOR TRASH COLLECTION AND WENT OUT LATER. WE'RE LOOKING AT GOING OUT EARLIER AND ALSO ADDITIONAL OPTIONS TO TRASH COLLECTION TO, TO IMPROVE THE SERVICE. [01:50:01] SO, UM, WE WERE LOOKING AT POSSIBLY A MEETING ON FRIDAY. WE'RE PROBABLY GONNA LOOK AT ENDED UP THE WAY SCHEDULES ALIGN POSSIBLY MONDAY TO SIT DOWN WITH REPUBLIC. WE'RE ALSO AWARE THAT A NUMBER OF RESIDENTS HAVE CALLED INTO THEIR CALL CENTER AND IT SEEMS LIKE WHEN THE CALLS COME IN AND ALL OF THEIR OPERATORS ARE BUSY, YOU GET DISCONNECTED, WHICH IS NOT ACCEPTABLE. AT MINIMUM, YOU SHOULD BE PLACED ON HOLD OR AT LEAST PUT INTO A QUEUE LIKE YOU, YOU ARE WITH OTHER, WITH OTHER, YOU KNOW, UH, CALL CENTERS. YEAH, I'VE TALKED TO PLENTY OF PEOPLE THAT SAID THEY'VE CALLED AND OR CALLED MEDFORD TOWNSHIP AND THEY'VE SAID TO CALL REPUBLIC, BUT IT'S KIND OF LIKE WE PAY MEDFORD. YEAH, RIGHT. IF I HAD A CONTRACTOR AT MY HOUSE AND THEY HIRE A SUB CONTRACTOR, I'M NOT GONNA GO CALL THE SUBCONTRACTOR BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT DOING THEIR JOB. I'M CALLING WHO I'M PAYING. SO IT KIND OF, YEAH. SO I WAS HAND IN HAND. YEP. AND REPUBLIC WAS SUPPOSED TO HAVE HAD EXTRA TRUCKS IN TOWN MONDAY THIS WEEK TO FINISH PICKUPS FROM LAST WEEK. THEIR EXCUSE TO US WAS MECHANICAL BREAKDOWNS. OBVIOUSLY AGAIN, THEY'RE A LARGE CORPORATION. THAT'S NOT REALLY A GREAT EXCUSE. JUST LIKE LAST JULY WHEN IT WAS A DRIVER SHORTAGE. RIGHT. SO, UM, THIS IS VERY REMINISCENT OF LAST JULY'S ISSUES, BUT, UH, THEY HAVE BEEN RECEPTIVE TO US. I CAN TELL YOU OUR DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS HAD 121 VOICEMAILS LAST WEEK ON FRIDAY. UM, AND WE ACTUALLY DISCUSSED LIKE IF YOU LITERALLY SPENT FIVE MINUTES RETURNING EACH EACH OF THOSE VOICEMAILS, YOU'RE ALMOST A FULL DAY. JUST RE SO, YOU KNOW, HE WAS TRYING TO RETURN AS MANY AS HE COULD. I KNOW I RETURNED A NUMBER OF, OF, UH, RESIDENTS CONCERNS. WE'RE GONNA KEEP, KEEP GETTING BACK TO THE RESIDENTS AND HOPEFULLY BY OUR NEXT COUNCIL MEETING WE SHOULD HAVE AN ADDITIONAL UPDATE AS TO WHERE WE MADE OUT WITH, WITH THE MEETING WITH REPUBLIC. NO, GREAT. THAT SOUNDS GREAT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. YEP. THANK YOU MA'AM. WE'RE VERY SORRY ABOUT THE TRASH. YEAH. ALRIGHT. ALL RIGHT. I LEFT HERE AND I WAS WATCHING EVERYTHING ON, UM, ON MY PHONE, SO I THIS IS FULL PUBLIC COMMENT. BRIAN. THANK YOU. I I HAD TO COME BACK UP HERE. YEAH. UM, I WANTED TO TOUCH ON WHAT SHE SAID ABOUT THE TRASH. IT IS TERRIBLE. EVERYBODY KNOWS YOU GUYS ARE ARE PROBABLY ARE HAVING PROBLEMS TOO. YEAH. UM, WHY NOT? MAYBE, POSSIBLY. DO WE STILL HAVE ONE TRASH TRUCK WHEN THEY FALL? WHEN, OKAY. I MEAN, I THINK AT SOME POINT, 'CAUSE WE'RE AT THEIR MERCY, I THINK REPUBLIC'S GONNA LAUGH OR WHATEVER. IT'S NOT GONNA HURT THEM. I, I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, TO REALLY GET OUT OF THIS, YOU, YOU GUYS MIGHT CONSIDER PASSING A REFERENDUM AND GOING BACK TO IN-HOUSE. I DON'T KNOW HOW THE COMMUNITY'S GONNA FEEL ABOUT THE TAX. WE'LL CALL IT THE BRIAN KARNS REFERENDUM. DON'T HAVE TO MENTION ME, BUT THE SERVICES DO. THE SERVICES ARE TERRIBLE. WHAT ARE WE DOING? DON'T THINK THEY'RE PROOF. WE'RE EXPLORING EVERY POSSIBLE, YOU KNOW, WHEN THEY PICK UP MY TRASH, THEY DROP HYDRAULIC FLUID LIKE YOU WOULDN'T BELIEVE. I FEEL LIKE MY TRASH IS GONE, BUT I GOT A GALLON OF HYDRAULIC FLUID. GET NEW GARBAGE AND STUFF. WHATEVER THE CASE IS. UM, I WANT TO TOUCH ON SOMETHING I THINK ZACH EVEN SAID TOO, AS COUNSEL AND THINGS HAVE IMPROVED HUGELY HERE FIVE YEARS AGO, IT, IT WAS A MESS. I KNOW THIS PROCESS OF WHAT YOU'RE DOING NOW. PEOPLE ARE UPSET. I'M, I'M NOT ONE OF 'EM. AND IT'S A WEIRD, IT'S A WEIRD THING THAT GOES ON HERE WITH THE COMMUNITY BECAUSE PEOPLE SEE AND, AND, AND FEEL DIFFERENT THINGS. UM, I DID SEE LIKE, I THINK IT WAS HIS NEPHEW THAT CAME UP HERE. I APOLOGIZED TO THE FAMILY. WHAT THE FAMILY NEEDS TO UNDERSTAND IS HE HURT OUR FAMILY. HE DID. AND, AND THAT'S SIMPLE AS THAT. I JUST PAID MY LAST QUARTER OF MY TAXES, GUYS, I'M GRINDING MY TEETH AT SOME OF THIS STUFF. I JUST AM. AND UM, DAN CAME UP AND MENTIONED PEMBERTON. I CAN SPEAK ABOUT PEMBERTON NOW. THANK YOU. YOU CAN, YOU CAN SPEAK ABOUT IT. WE'RE NOT GONNA COMMENT ON IT. SAID, WELL, NO, IT'S COOL. IT, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HE, HE SAID THAT HIS POSITION'S DIFFERENT THERE AND THAT, YOU KNOW, THE, THE, THE MAYOR HOLDS, THE MAYOR'S THE BOSS. AND I UNDERSTOOD WHAT HE MEANT THERE, BUT THERE WAS A PRETTY BIG ARTICLE WRITTEN, OKAY. AND I WANT, I WANT THE COMMUNITY TO UNDERSTAND. SO I'M JUST GOING TO, LET'S JUST SAY, LET'S JUST MAKE THIS ME. WELL, WE'RE IN PEMBRO. LET'S JUST SAY, I'M GONNA MAKE A QUICK EXAMPLE. OKAY? SO YOU'RE THE BIG BAD MAYOR. YOU CAN'T KEEP YOUR HANDS TO YOURSELF. EVEN THOUGH I SPENT TIME WITH YOU, YOU DIDN'T TRY ANYTHING WITH ME. OKAY? BUT YOU'RE THAT GUY, RIGHT? YOU'RE IN TROUBLE. HE'S IN A LOT OF TROUBLE. WAIT, I'M SORRY BRIAN, COME ON. YOU'RE NOT REFERRING TO ME PERSONALLY OR NO, I'M GIVING AN EXAMPLE. SO EVERYBODY UNDERSTANDS WHAT TRANS WHAT HAPPENED IN PEMBERTON. OKAY? SO YOU'RE, YOU'RE THE BIG BAD WOLF, OKAY? AND THESE WOMEN THAT ARE WORKING PAYCHECK TO PAYCHECK, THEY, THEY HAVE TO GO TO WORK AND THEY WERE, THEY WERE TERRORIZED IN SO MANY DIFFERENT WAYS. IT IS, IT'S ALL OUT THERE. THERE'S EVEN A MENTION OF A RAPE ROOM IN PEMBERTON, OKAY? THAT THE TOWNSHIP SOMEHOW IS TIED INTO JUST CRAZY STUFF, GUYS. OKAY? SO NOW THEY'RE COMING AFTER YOU, THEY GET TOGETHER, YOU NEED AN ATTORNEY, RIGHT? YOU'RE NOT GONNA GO HIRE AN ATTORNEY OUT OF YOUR OWN POCKET AND PAY FOR IT. SO YOU GO TO THE TOWNSHIP SOLICITOR. I BELIEVE THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENS. I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S THE SAME FIRM. SOMEBODY COMES IN, THEY START REPRESENTING YOU, BUT YOU GOTTA KEEP THAT BILLING QUIET, RIGHT? EVERY MONTH YOU HAVE TO PUT OUT THE REPORT. SOMEBODY'S LOOKING AT IT. MY UNDERSTANDING IT'S ALLEGED, OKAY? BUT IT WAS IN THE PAPER THAT, [01:55:01] THAT, THAT ALL THE FILING FOR THE LAWYER'S BILLS WAS HIDDEN IN, IN MISCELLANEOUS STUFF THAT PEOPLE NORMALLY WOULDN'T LOOK AT. OKAY? THERE'S ONLY ONE PERSON THAT WOULD'VE DONE THAT, AND THAT'S THE MANAGER. AND HE WAS NAMED, NAMED IN THAT. OKAY? UM, I THINK ONCE AGAIN, WHAT HAPPENED OVER IN PEMBERTON IS IMPORTANT HERE. IT'S, IT'S, IT'S COMPLETELY DISGUSTING. AND I HEARD HIM SAY, LOOK, LIKE, YOU KNOW, I COULDN'T DO ANYTHING. I DON'T KNOW ANYBODY IN THIS ROOM THAT WOULD STAND BY AND BE AROUND ANYBODY THAT IS SEXUALLY HARASSING WOMEN, TALKING DOWN TO 'EM LIKE THEY'RE, THEY'RE NOTHING. OKAY. AND NOT DO SOMETHING. COME ON MAN. I'M GONNA PUT MY HANDS ON YOU AT SOME POINT. IF I, IF I CAN'T GO TO THE PROSECUTOR'S OFFICE, YOU WOULD BE PROTECTED UNDER A WHISTLEBLOWER ACT. I BELIEVE. I REALLY DO. SO THAT'S WHY I'M HERE. I DO REALLY RESPECT RAY AND KATHY FOR VOTING. NO, I UNDERSTAND THIS IS A CRAZY PROCESS HERE AND THE WAY IT'S GOING DOWN, BUT I ALSO LOOK AT IT AS WELL, IT'S A BIG BAD BREAKUP, RIGHT? AND YOU GOTTA RIP THAT BANDAID OFF AND YOU GUYS JUST CAN'T BE AROUND EACH OTHER FROM THERE. THAT'S, THAT'S ALL I WANTED TO SAY. AND, AND I HOPE THE COMMUNITY UNDERSTANDS THAT THERE WAS A LOT MORE GOING ON AND THAT, THAT I DON'T BELIEVE WE SHOULD HAVE EVER HIRED HIM. AND IT'S NOT EVEN JUST THIS PERFORMANCE HERE, IT'S JUST EVERYTHING STINKS. AND THE PERMANENT CONNECTION IN MEDFORD IS JUST CRAZY. IT GOES BACK AND FORTH. A LOT OF BUSINESS WAS DONE. ALL RIGHT. AM I OUT OF TIME? GOT ABOUT 20 SECONDS LEFT. ALRIGHT, 20 SECONDS LEFT. ALRIGHT. ONCE AGAIN, I, I REALLY, REALLY DO. I DO HAVE SOMETHING REALLY NICE TO SAY TO YOU, MIKE. OKAY? THE FUR BABY EVENT, YOU PUT THAT TOGETHER. A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T KNOW THE OLD ACCOUNT. A LOT OF YOU RAY KATHY FORE YOU WEREN'T HERE. UM, YOU WERE, AND YOU GUYS HELPED. I PUT YOU IN TOUCH WITH THAT LADY ANN FROM BURLINGTON COUNTY FRIENDS. I THOUGHT IT WAS GONNA BE A JOKE. SHE WAS GONNA GET BLOWN OFF. MY UNDERSTANDING IS DAN DID WORK WITH HER AND STUFF LIKE THAT. BUT I DO COMMEND COUNSEL FOR PUTTING THAT EVENT TOGETHER. IT SUCKS. I MISSED IT. BUT, UM, AND, AND EVERYTHING ELSE YOU'RE DOING, IT'S JUST OVERSHADOWED BY SOME, SOME CRAZY NONSENSE, LIKE USUAL, BUT WHATEVER THE CASE IS. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU BRIAN. YOU CAN'T WIN 'EM ALL. GIMME A SHOUT OUT TO ANGELA FOR THAT ONE. BRIAN, WE GOTTA GIVE ANGELA THE CREDIT THERE. ANGELA'S YES. GOOD PERSON. GOOD EMPLOYEE. OKAY, SO WE ARE STILL ON THE PUBLIC COMMENT SECTION FOR THE FIVE 30 HEARING. WOULD ANYONE ELSE HAVE TO SPEAK DURING THIS PUBLIC COMMENT SECTION, MA'AM? HI DIANA. ROSSI. UM, I JUST HAVE A QUICK QUESTION. WHAT IS THE PROCESS THAT YOU'LL USE TO HIRE A NEW TOWNSHIP ADMINISTRATOR FOR A TOWNSHIP MANAGER? TOWNSHIP MANAGER? YEAH. THE PERSON WHO'S GOING TO BE PART-TIME THAT HE MIGHT BE FILLING IN FOR 30 DAYS. IS HE A GUARANTEE THAT HE'S GONNA BE IN, WILL YOU BE INTERVIEWING OTHER PEOPLE? UM, WE DON'T, I MEAN EVERYBODY HAS A POLITICAL PARTY. IT'D BE NICE IF THERE WAS SOMEONE WHO WAS AN INDEPENDENT OR SOMEONE WHO, UM, ISN'T REALLY INVOLVED IN THEIR POLITICAL PARTY SO THAT WE DON'T HAVE THIS ANGST. THERE'S BEEN ZERO DECISION TO HIRE A TOWNSHIP MANAGER. WELL, WHAT IS GOING TO BE THE PROCESS? IT HAS NOT BEEN DISCUSSED. IT WHEN IT, WHEN IT IS THAT MEANS A GENERAL PROCESS THAT WOULD BE USED. IT'S, UM, BOTH COUNCILWOMAN MILK AND I WERE PRESENT DURING, I MEAN WE WERE BASICALLY THROWN INTO IT WHEN, UM, MRS. BERGER RETIRED. RIGHT? UM, MR. TKI HAD STEPPED IN AS NOT ONLY THE, WAS HE ACTING OR INTERIM INTERIM INTERIM MANAGER AND HIS FIRM WAS THE HIRING ENTITY FOR THE MANAGER. THERE WAS MUCH TURNOVER AT THAT TIME, AS YOU MAY RECALL. UM, I PER, THIS IS ME PERSONALLY, I DON'T FEEL AS THOUGH YOU CAN REALLY DO BOTH OF THOSE JOBS, HANDLE THE DAY TO DAY AND LOOK FOR A REPLACEMENT THERE. IT'S JUST TOO, YOU, YOU NEED TOO MUCH. RIGHT? THERE'S TOO MUCH GOING ON. SO OUR, AT LEAST MY HOPE IS THAT CHIEF DOVEY WITH ADMINISTRATIVE SUPPORT CAN MAINTAIN THE WORKFORCE AND THE HIERARCHY OF THE TOWN. AND THEN A PROCESS AS MR. VARGAS STATED, WHICH HAS NOT BEEN DISCUSSED YET, CAN, CAN BE EXECUTED OUTSIDE OF THAT DAY-TO-DAY PROCESS. I, I, IT WAS, IT WAS, IT WAS EIGHT MONTHS I BELIEVE IT WAS. IT WAS EXHAUSTING. AND THAT PERSON WAS TRYING TO NOT ONLY RUN THE TOWN, WHICH UM, NOW MR. DOBY WITH ADMINISTRATIVE SUPPORT IS RUNNING THE TOWN. THAT PERSON ALSO FINDING A REPLACEMENT MANAGER WAS A VERY TOUGH ASK. AND ALSO KEY OTHER KEY EMPLOYEES. OTHER KEY EMPLOYEES. I THINK THERE WAS SEVEN IN TOTAL THAT I KNOW YOU LOST A LOT OF EMPLOYEES. THEY RETIRED, WHATEVER. YEAH. SO, SO WE'RE AT THIS VERY MOMENT, AS MR. VARGA STATED, WE'RE LOOKING FOR JUST STABILITY IN THE DEPARTMENT AND THAT WAY WE CAN GET THROUGH THE BUDGET CYCLE. WE CAN GET TO A POINT WHERE ALL MEMBERS OF COUNCIL CAN HAVE INPUT ON WHAT THAT PROCESS LOOKS LIKE, WHO'S INTERVIEWED AND, AND HOW THOSE APPLICATIONS ARE PRESENTED TO US. OKAY. BUT THEN BE INTERVIEWS THERE, THERE'LL BE A FULL PROCESS. OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. [02:00:02] OKAY. ANYONE ELSE FOR THIS SECTION OF PUBLIC COMMENT? ? OKAY. UM, I JUST HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS TO ASK. MY NAME IS MARIANNE HOLLOWAY. I'M SORRY, I REMEMBERED MR. DOBY, YOU AND I'D ASKED YOU A QUESTION AT THE LAST MEETING. YOU'RE DOING TWO JOBS RIGHT NOW? YES. AND YOU'RE NOT GETTING PAID ANYTHING FOR THE ADDITIONAL WORK THAT YOU'RE DOING? NO, I DIDN'T REQUEST ANY ADDITIONAL COMPENSATION. WHY? I KNOW YOU DIDN'T REQUEST IT, BUT THAT'S QUITE UNUSUAL. SO WHY YOU'RE ASKING ME WHY WE HAVEN'T READ ADDITIONAL COMPENSATION? BECAUSE HE'S DOING TWO JOBS. YEP. HE'S NOT WORKING A 40. HE'S DOING AN EXCELLENT JOB. YES. IN THE PAST OTHER PEOPLE HAVE BEEN PAID ADDITIONAL COMPENSATION. WE HAVE A SITUATION WHERE YOU'RE DOING SHARED SERVICES, ADDING $90,000 TO THE BUDGET. YOU ARE SAYING THERE'S A DIFFERENTIAL BECAUSE IT'S ACTUALLY LOWER WHEN THEY'RE PAYING THE MANAGER. WE'RE NOT PAYING MR. DOBY ADDITIONAL. AND HERE WE HAVE A GENTLEMAN WORKING OVER AND BEYOND TWO JOBS. SOMETHING'S GOTTA GIVE. YOU GOT $90,000 BEING SENT OVER TO SOUTH HAMPTON. THAT $90,000 YOU'RE SAYING IS LOWER THAN WHAT YOU WOULD BE PAYING, YOU KNOW, FOR TWO JOBS. WHY IS THAT HAPPENING? IT'S NOT LOGICAL. YEAH. ON A MANAGERIAL LEVEL, IT'S NOT LOGICAL. WE'VE DISCUSSED OPPORTUNITIES TO COMPENSATE MR. DOY FOR HIS ADDITIONAL JOB RESPONSIBILITIES. WE HAVEN'T MADE FINAL DECISIONS ON THAT YET, BUT THEY'VE BEEN DISCUSSED BY MEMBERS OF COUNCIL. ALL RIGHT, SO WHAT I'M GONNA SAY, I'M GONNA SAY VERY POLITELY. MR. AMBA IS NOT BEING HIRED. HE'S BEING PLACED, AND WE ALL KNOW IT. AND I THINK THAT'S THE WORDS PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO DO. AT ONE MEETING, I SAT THERE, WATCHED MR. UMBA, AS HE ALWAYS SITS IN THE BACK OF THE ROOM AND OUTSIDE OF CAMERA RANGE, THE NIGHT IN THE NEED OF WHEN THE IN IN NEED OF REDEVELOPMENT WAS PASSED. I WATCHED MR. UMBA WALK ACROSS THE ROOM AND CONGRATULATE DL HORTON AND PAT HIM ON THE BACK. MY PROFESSIONAL OPINION IS HE'S BEING PLACED, AND I THINK NOBODY SAID IT CLEAR ENOUGH. AND IT'S VERY CLEAR. THE REASON WHY I'M MAKING THAT STATEMENT IS THAT IN THE BEGINNING OF THIS, SHE, THERE WAS A SITUATION WHERE IN 2 20, 25 PEOPLE ON THE PLANNING BOARD WERE, UH, SEATS WERE LEFT BLANK. THEY WEREN'T APPOINTED. AND I DON'T KNOW THAT I NEED TO GO INTO THE REST BECAUSE I THINK MOST COUNCIL UNDERSTANDS WHAT HAPPENED. AND IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S DEJA VU ALL OVER AGAIN. UM, I HAVE A LOT OF RESPECT FOR ALL OF YOU. I DO. BUT IT'S OBVIOUS. AND IF ANYBODY IN THIS TOWN THINKS THAT MR. AMBA ISN'T GONNA BECOME THE NEXT MANAGER, I HAVE A FARM TO SELL 'EM. SO I, I'M JUST VOICING IT. MR. DOY, YOU DESERVE A LOT MORE THAN WHAT'S HAPPENING. I GIVE YOU A LOT OF RESPECT. I REALLY DO. THANK YOU. I DON'T THINK IT'S FAIR. AND I'M SURE YOU, YOU'RE WHAT, WHATEVER YOU'RE SAYING, BUT IT'S OBVIOUS WHAT'S HAPPENING. NOBODY IS BLIND, NOBODY IS BLINDED. SO I JUST WANNA LET YOU KNOW IT'S APPARENT. I'M DISAPPOINTED. I'M, I'M REALLY DISAPPOINTED BECAUSE I THOUGHT THERE WAS A TURN. I HAD SO MUCH HOPE. IT'S A THREE TO TWO CONSTANTLY. AND I DO HAVE A LOT OF RESPECT FOR PEOPLE HERE. I JUST WANT TO LET YOU KNOW THAT WE KNOW. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. ANYONE ELSE? MOTION TO CLOSE. MOTION SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. ALRIGHT. PUBLIC COMMENTS. CLOSED. MOTION TO ADJOURN. CORRECT. SO MOVED A SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. ALRIGHT. THAT PUBLIC MEETING IS HEARING IS CLOSED. NO. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.